Thought Experiment: ~$60k "performance" Small-ish SUVs

[mmc45414]

Just finished the Explorer article, if I read it all at once my legs start to get numb...

$2500 for summer tires and $1700 for a sunroof both sound pretty silly, actually sounds like the base would be plenty nice.

They did say the transmission hunts a bit, might that be expected with ten ratios. Any delay probably is more about fly-by-wire and CPU speed.

ETA: I know this discussion is all about AWD and high sightlines, but one of their naysayer counterpoints essentially said this would be great if it were a sedan. Makes me wonder what a RWD lower version might be like, kinda like the LE Tahoe and the Tremor F-150.

[rob_s]

ETA: I know this discussion is all about AWD and high sightlines, but one of their naysayer counterpoints essentially said this would be great if it were a sedan. Makes me wonder what a RWD lower version might be like, kinda like the LE Tahoe and the Tremor F-150.

Like I said earlier, I think the car press is like the gun press and they approach things from an enthusiast perspective and then sell product to armchair guys. Handling, performance, etc. are great and super interesting to me to learn and read about but, I just about don't care in the slightest about slalom numbers for a car I'm going to drive back and forth 30 minutes each way to the office every day.

So I hear what the car media are saying in instances like this, but I kind of wish they'd shut up about it (no shit huh, the SUV doesn't handle like a sedan? man it's a good thing they put that in writing! Who'd have thought) and I generally just ignore it.

Meanwhile 99% of the Raptors sold never leave the pavement.

ETA:

One day I hope to have the free time on my hands to buy a Miata, wrench on it, and take it to track days. So I'm certainly not opposed to performance specs in cars. I obviously also care about performance as it relates to "real world" driving on south Florida roads (like the tire discussion earlier in the thread).

[TGS]

I can’t begin to describe how transformative the 4S tires I put on the Z3 were. I have never been so impressed with a tire.

Now I worry about breaking something in the suspension...they grip so hard. And are so comfortable too. Just tried them in wet and they were really unbelievable.

I completely hear you.

The best "upgrade" I made on my 05 WRX STi was to replace the wheels that were 5lbs lighter each wheel, a half inch wider, and wrap them in Bridgestone Potenza RE01R tires.

The grip was fucking insane. Game changing. It had more grip in the rain than all seasons did on dry pavement.

As @RevolverRob pointed out, the service life was short but my god were they worth it. I kept all seasons on my current outback as I bought it while living in NJ and didn't have room, but I think now that I live in VA and have a house I'm going to invest in dedicated tires again. This car is getting sold within the next year as I'm going overseas, and when I get back I'm buying either an X1 or another Outback. Will do the wheels, and maybe upgrade brakes too.

[mmc45414]

I'm certainly not opposed to performance specs in cars. I obviously also care about performance as it relates to "real world" driving on south Florida roads.

I think it is the difference between street and track, and people get wrapped around the axle (see what I did there?...) over specs for specs sake. Pretty sure there is no street difference (on street tires) between a Mustang that has 600hp, 700hp, 800hp or 1000hp, but I have a buddy that will watch it on YouTube...

[mmc45414]

The best "upgrade" I made on my 05 WRX STi was to replace the wheels that were 5lbs lighter each wheel, a half inch wider, and wrap them in Bridgestone Potenza RE01R tires.
As @RevolverRob pointed out, the service life was short but my god were they worth it.

I had a set of summer tires on my Focus ST, I tell people the problem with summer tires is they only lasted one summer (I drive a lot for work, just highway).

ETA: Another big problem in my climate is there is a at least a forth of the year, before and after winter, when it is too cold for them but no snow, so I put a bunch of extra wear on the Blitzaks. And last year before a trip to Chicago I was swapping them back on before I left. It got warm and cold and warm and... When I am around home I can just drive my truck.

[ranger]

Audis are fun to drive until they start to fall apart. I’ll never own another VW product. I have so many examples from mine, and friends’ vehicles. I agree with @JAD, BMW is the way to go. Or get a Tesla Model X.

Amen on Audi. I had a 2003 Audi A4 Avant Quattro 3.0V6 I loved until it broke my heart with one major cost after another culminating with a dead transmission. Audi and VW are off the list. I just bought a loaded 2019 Subaru Outback Touring 3.6 and it is no Porsche or BMW but it is a lot of SUV for the money. I am not paying 60k when I can get “enough” for less than 40k.

[RevolverRob]

I had a set of summer tires on my Focus ST, I tell people the problem with summer tires is they only lasted one summer (I drive a lot for work, just highway).

A summer? Heck, I've torn through 200 TW tires in a DAY. But if you track a tire not meant for tracking that's pretty much what you'll do. Sustained driving at the limit will destroy any street tire in an afternoon, if you push hard enough. The grippier the tire the easier it is to drive it until it falls off.

But for the most part, you are correct, summer tires are made to last one summer basically. You can get ~20-25k miles on a set of summer tires if you drive like grandpa, but more likely 10-15k is your target. If you track, 10k miles is about where you'll settle. If you autocross closer to 20k generally, but depends on the tire.

For street driving, for the most part, unless you're running a high horsepower vehicle, you can generally get by with all-seasons. I'd argue in some ways all-seasons are more fun, because they slide more.

Michelin Pilot A/S is a great all-season tire, the Michelin Defender is also a good one. I'm on my second set of Defenders on the Mazda 2. I got 45k miles and four full Chicago winters on the last set. I don't bother with winter tires (they plow so often here). And with Konis and Corksport suspension bits, the 2 has plenty of grip with Defenders. Sure it would be faster on a summer tire, but for street driving it does great and while I can spin the tires in first gear, the car only has 100 horsepower, so I really don't need the stickiest tire in the world.

[Doc_Glock]

But for the most part, you are correct, summer tires are made to last one summer basically. You can get ~20-25k miles on a set of summer tires if you drive like grandpa, but more likely 10-15k is your target. If you track, 10k miles is about where you'll settle. If you autocross closer to 20k generally, but depends on the tire.

My last set (non Michelin) lasted ~4k miles I don't have high hopes for treadwear on the 4Ss

[JAD]

Amen on Audi. I had a 2003 Audi A4 Avant Quattro 3.0V6 I loved until it broke my heart with one major cost after another culminating with a dead transmission. Audi and VW are off the list. I just bought a loaded 2019 Subaru Outback Touring 3.6 and it is no Porsche or BMW but it is a lot of SUV for the money. I am not paying 60k when I can get “enough” for less than 40k.

I myself have a 2017 outback touring 3.6. It is a hard car to argue with. I should stick a blue propeller on the front and drive the wheels off it.

[JAD]

A summer? Heck, I've torn through 200 TW tires in a DAY. But if you track a tire not meant for tracking that's pretty much what you'll do..

Please kick yourself in the junk for using ‘track’ as a verb in that sense.