Page 1 of 19 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 183

Thread: Thought Experiment: ~$60k "performance" Small-ish SUVs

  1. #1
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SE FL

    Thought Experiment: ~$60k "performance" Small-ish SUVs

    We are mulling over a move "into town" which would (a) make my need for a truck pretty minimal and (b) make a fullsize vehicle problematic (any space I save in future fantasy garage would be space I'd get to use to store tools...).

    This has had me poking around the small-ish (~185" OAL) SUV market, particularly as relates to "performance" trims and models. Examples would be the Porsche Macan, BMW X3 M40i, Audi SQ5, Volvo XC60 T8, Mercedes GLC 43 AMG, etc. Also on the "maybe" list are what I'd consider ultra-small SUVs (~175" OAL) like the Mercedes GLA 45 AMG and the BMW X2 M35i. On the other end of the spectrum there appears to be only one player at the moment and that's the 2020 Ford Explorer ST (at ~199" OAL).

    Price criteria being ~$60k+/- out the door, and performance being (and I know there's more to performance than this, just using this as a starting point) 5 seconds 0-60 or +/-.

    The Volvo is my current "pick" mostly because (a) I believe the "hybrid" moniker gets me legally into the HOV lane (b) it's probably the least known as a "luxury" brand (showing up with a BMW or Benz is going to send a gaudy message in some of my circles) and (c) I really like their interior styling and infotainment. Of the two it seems to most closely compete with (the X3 and Q5) it has what I consider to be the best combination of seat up/down cargo space of the three.

    Mostly as a thought experiment (more so than a "tell me how to spend my money" or "tell me what to do") but I thought it'd be interesting to have a discussion surrounding this segment as I know there's a fair number of car guys here.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    PA
    I have a couple of thoughts about the topic. Are you buying or leasing? A trusted mechanic who owns a shop staffed only by techs who were factory trained by many of the makers you mentioned says, "Lease forced induction, buy fuel injected." His position is that the higher pressure engines are expensive to rebuild after having them for more than a few years.

    A friend's ex has the Porsche and loves it.

    I had a Volvo XC 90 and the transmission (GM made) self destructed. Same transmission in my old Impala cop car did the same during a pursuit. Oil and bearings rolling down the street, but that's another story. Check to see who is making Volvo's stuff before buying.

    Perhaps Infinity?

  3. #3
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SE FL
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason M View Post
    Perhaps Infinity?
    I may be missing it, but I don't see anything "performance" centered in their SUV offerings...

  4. #4
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gotham Adjacent
    So, I guess it depends on what you want it to drive like - a car, a performance sedan, or a truck?

    The Macan/Q5 are effectively the same vehicle. And they share the same underlying chassis as the Audi A-series sedans. They drive far more like front-wheel drive sedans with some power going to the back wheels, than a RWD car.

    The BMW is based on the shared platform for their sedans and roadsters, but is built from the ground up to be RWD. Adding X-Drive, makes it drive more like an all-time 4WD Jeep than an AWD car, which I actually find better, it really digs in and transfers the power around as necessary. I want to think the BMW has a higher towing capacity than the Porsche/Audi, but I could be wrong.

    I can't comment on the Volvo's drivetrain. I haven't driven a new Volvo in 20 years. I don't think I could be convinced to buy one, lots of electrical problems with them right now.

    The Explorer - well the new 2020 is a RWD chassis that is getting rave reviews right now. I haven't had a chance to drive one, but I'm definitely interested in the ST model myself. The previous gen was definitely more car than truck like, but the 3.5 AWD ecoboost Police Interceptor package is a fun vehicle to drive. Much faster than an old Crown Vic and extremely stable at speed.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Dunedin, FL, USA
    I struggle reconciling the tall center of gravity of SUV designs, the short wheel bases of the smaller ones, and "performance". Of the ones I have driven, the Porsche Cayenne and the Tesla Model X were decent, but both are priced north of your desired range. The Model X was surprisingly nimble, and the low-end torque and lower center of gravity made for a fun-to-drive vehicle. Of course, it has the infrastructure issues of needing to be charged and those stupid doors.

    My wife test drove a Macan and hated it due to the limited space for stuff both in the cabin and in the "hatch area". The Explorer ST is a lumbering beast that plows rather than turns. I have no experience with Volvo since they were sold by Ford to the Chinese group Geely. My impression before was the vehicles were very difficult to service, requiring custom tools that mostly only dealers have.

  6. #6
    Member DallasBronco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Richardson, TX
    Is a Grand Cherokee an option? I find the Hemi to be an outstanding engine in their trucks, especially mated to the ZF 8-speed.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SE FL
    Quote Originally Posted by farscott View Post
    I struggle reconciling the tall center of gravity of SUV designs, the short wheel bases of the smaller ones, and "performance". Of the ones I have driven, the Porsche Cayenne and the Tesla Model X were decent, but both are priced north of your desired range. The Model X was surprisingly nimble, and the low-end torque and lower center of gravity made for a fun-to-drive vehicle. Of course, it has the infrastructure issues of needing to be charged and those stupid doors.

    My wife test drove a Macan and hated it due to the limited space for stuff both in the cabin and in the "hatch area". The Explorer ST is a lumbering beast that plows rather than turns. I have no experience with Volvo since they were sold by Ford to the Chinese group Geely. My impression before was the vehicles were very difficult to service, requiring custom tools that mostly only dealers have.
    Personally...
    I'm not tracking the car, so I don't really care about "performance" other than straight-line highway/real-world. I honestly find most of the discussions around handling and such in the car media to be pretty amusing given the percentage of buyers that are actually going to do anything related to those topics is about near 0 in most cases.

    re: service, I'm not buying a $60k car (or even a $20k car, for that matter) and then turning wrenches. I thankfully graduated from having to work on my own cars and unless my financial outlook changes I won't be doing it again. I'm fine with dealer service (I think I've had my last 4 vehicles exclusively serviced at their respective dealerships) and don't care about not being able to use a mom-n-pop place.

    I suppose overall my need falls more into an urban vehicle with high sightlines, a little more ground clearance, and enough oomph so as both not to be too boring and also be king of the on-ramp.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SE FL
    Quote Originally Posted by DallasBronco View Post
    Is a Grand Cherokee an option? I find the Hemi to be an outstanding engine in their trucks, especially mated to the ZF 8-speed.
    I like it in concept, but it's a 6-second vehicle at best until you get to the SRT which puts it above my imaginary $60k "limit".

    The good news, however, is that it's closer in OAL (at 189") to the XC60/Macan/SQ5/X3 (~185") than it is to the Explorer (199"). In a 20ft garage every little bit helps.

    I can't believe this current design has been around since 2011!
    https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ee-2021-spied/
    Last edited by rob_s; 08-19-2019 at 01:36 PM.

  9. #9
    FWIW, my uncle has the hybrid Volvo SUV on a lease, and can’t wait to get rid of it. All the driver assist features that it touts don’t work as advertised. More hindrance than help.

    Flip side is that I run around in a police package Ford Explorer at work when I’m on the fly car. For various logistical reasons, a 2020 Exporer will probably be the next family car.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SE FL
    Quote Originally Posted by LJP View Post
    FWIW, my uncle has the hybrid Volvo SUV on a lease, and can’t wait to get rid of it. All the driver assist features that it touts don’t work as advertised. More hindrance than help.
    We rented a Volvo V90 T8 wagon in Norway. I *loved* driving that car. We drive it around in the rural areas for 7 days, then for 5 hours on the highway, than around Oslo for 3 days. Other than the high window making it impossible to rest my arm on the sill, I had not one complaint. That's part of what's piqued my interest in the Volvo line. I'd really like to have the V90 T8 Cross Country but it's a little long and they only offer the T6 in the US. I don't actually recall any driver assist features beyond the parking sensors...?

    Obviously 10 days on vacation is way different than dealing with it in the real world.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •