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Thread: Body armor effectiveness against Russian issue ammunition

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    Body armor effectiveness against Russian issue ammunition

    I have a friend who is planning buying armor, and effectiveness of said armor in stopping typical current issue Russian rifle bullets is definitely one selection criteria for him. I went looking, and while there appears to be a lot of misinformation out there regarding body armor in general, one thing where things seem to be even worse is when discussing armor's effectiveness in stopping Russian rounds.This forum being the mecca for high quality information, I was hoping you guys might be able to shed some more light on the topic?

    Now obviously, most armor manufacturers in the West don't test their armor with Russian ammo, but how useful would tests with SS109/M855 and .30 caliber bullets be in estimating the armor's effectiveness? Would it be fair to say that due to Russian mentality of emphasizing penetration, ceramic plates are pretty much the only effective armor out there?

    (My friend could of course buy Russian plates, which are tested against Russian ammunition, but from what I've read Russians have some quality control issues so he would be taking a risk of receiving a plate that won't perform as advertised. And there would be some logistical issues involved as well. Much easier to just get good quality western manufactured plates that are more likely to perform up to claimed standards.)

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    By Russian ammo, are you talking about 5.45 specifically, or just all of it? I’ve got a pretty basic level of understanding so I won’t say much, but unless he’s planning on getting in a fight with the Rooskies, I think concerns about stopping M193 and M855 are more valid. From my understanding, slow heavy rounds don’t penetrate as well, so 7.62x39 isn’t as much of a concern and 5.45 guns and ammo isn’t nearly as pervasive as ARs and 193/855 are here in the states IMO. The two don’t have to be mutually exclusive - my expectation would be that if it performs well against 5.45 it’d do the same for 193/855 and vice versa. I don’t know whether that’s true or not, but my point is that I’d really only be looking at the newer plates that are often referred to as special threat and designed with 193/855 in mind - Velocity makes one as does Hesco I believe. I care far less about AP .30-06 if Walmart special ammo from a Bushmaster is going to poke right through.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    but unless he’s planning on getting in a fight with the Rooskies ... and 5.45 guns and ammo isn’t nearly as pervasive as ARs and 193/855 are here in the states IMO.
    A fight with the Russians is indeed the reason for the armor. The person is located outside USA.

    For US domestic use, I feel the existing information on this forum covers things pretty well. I am specifically looking for knowledge that applies to situations outside USA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    A fight with the Russians is indeed the reason for the armor. The person is located outside USA.

    For US domestic use, I feel the existing information on this forum covers things pretty well. I am specifically looking for knowledge that applies to situations outside USA.
    If said dude has any risk of engaging Russians in any manner consistent with international law (I.e. he's not a terrorist or criminal), he should have better resources that P-F.com at his finger tips. I know such for a fact, actually.

    Aside from information being fun and all, this thread has either "mall ninja" or "super fucking sketch'" written all over it.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

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    Member wvincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    If said dude has any risk of engaging Russians in any manner consistent with international law (I.e. he's not a terrorist or criminal), he should have better resources that P-F.com at his finger tips. I know such for a fact, actually.

    Aside from information being fun and all, this thread has either "mall ninja" or "super fucking sketch'" written all over it.
    And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't western manufactured armor ITAR controlled?
    Have fun getting jacked up on that.
    "And for a regular dude I’m maybe okay...but what I learned is if there’s a door, I’m going out it not in it"-Duke
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    If said dude has any risk of engaging Russians in any manner consistent with international law (I.e. he's not a terrorist or criminal), he should have better resources that P-F.com at his finger tips. I know such for a fact, actually.

    Aside from information being fun and all, this thread has either "mall ninja" or "super fucking sketch'" written all over it.
    I feel you are overreacting a bit.

    Look, you would probably state that the U.S. military is the most professional and best trained military in the world, right? I once read a U.S. veteran's story about a unit that had spent unit money to buy ICW plates, which they then proceeded to use as stand alone armour, because hey, plates is plates right? Now, if the most professional and best trained military in the world can make a mistake like that, what makes you so sure others are any more squared off?

    The friend of mine is a military reservist, so he isn't a full-time soldier. So I am not sure how much of these better resources he has available. He also doesn't make that much money, and I know how much armour costs. People on this forum ask for information on a wide variety of topics and usually get answers from very high level professionals. So I figured there's no harm in asking. Besides, like you said, information is fun, and seeing a lack of it I got curious.

    Sorry if my question offended you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wvincent View Post
    And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't western manufactured armor ITAR controlled?
    Have fun getting jacked up on that.
    I'm not sure what you mean with "jacked up", but outside of the US there are at least French, German, UK, and South Korean manufactured plates for sale, as well as one or two places that sell gucci gear for the wealthy, including U.S. manufactured gear. None of this is illegal in any way to buy (just bloody expensive).

    Anyways, my apologies if my question touched a nerve.

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    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    I feel you are overreacting a bit.

    Look, you would probably state that the U.S. military is the most professional and best trained military in the world, right? I once read a U.S. veteran's story about a unit that had spent unit money to buy ICW plates, which they then proceeded to use as stand alone armour, because hey, plates is plates right? Now, if the most professional and best trained military in the world can make a mistake like that, what makes you so sure others are any more squared off?

    The friend of mine is a military reservist, so he isn't a full-time soldier. So I am not sure how much of these better resources he has available. He also doesn't make that much money, and I know how much armour costs. People on this forum ask for information on a wide variety of topics and usually get answers from very high level professionals. So I figured there's no harm in asking. Besides, like you said, information is fun, and seeing a lack of it I got curious.

    Sorry if my question offended you.
    It didn't offend me. To someone that actually works outside the US wearing body armor for specified threats, it's just odd.

    What position is a military reservist in, outside the US, where he's looking to get into a fight with the Russians but doesn't have access to resources on what plates should be used? That's an exceedingly small number of people.....anyone attached to START Forward, for instance, is going to have those resources.

    Again, I'm not offended, I'm just suspect. Forgive me if I get a little ancy when people ask weird shit about ITAR controlled items on this forum for use overseas.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Again, I'm not offended, I'm just suspect. Forgive me if I get a little ancy when people ask weird shit about ITAR controlled items on this forum for use overseas.
    ...or someone actually looking for info on how to improve the effectivity of domestically available personal armor. Yeah. I agree that this topic is highly suspect. The Dayton shooter, who was wearing body armor, was hit 24 times and tried to get up twice. Questions about improving personal body armor are very suspicious in my opinion.
    Last edited by Pappy35; 08-19-2019 at 03:06 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Again, I'm not offended, I'm just suspect. Forgive me if I get a little ancy when people ask weird shit about ITAR controlled items on this forum for use overseas.
    If you are more comfortable discussing this topic privately (where I can get a bit more specific), feel free to message me. Otherwise, sorry to have bothered you.

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