Are the 9 and 45 the same frame size or is the 45’s grip noticeably larger? I like the size of the 9 but there are piles and piles of Experts in 45 in GB right now, for cheap.
Are the 9 and 45 the same frame size or is the 45’s grip noticeably larger? I like the size of the 9 but there are piles and piles of Experts in 45 in GB right now, for cheap.
I can say that the USP 45 fits my average length, slightly more than average breadth hands (actually just googled what's average, numbers are from a NASA study https://www.healthline.com/health/average-hand-size ) really well. I don't currently have a USP 9 but they feel just a little smaller. As you'll see below, it's not much.Originally Posted by ratter75
The following is from a post by TwoSixty on HKpro.com, providing it in full here so you don't need to wade through 21 posts by idiots speculating instead of measuring (although the link is at the bottom, if anyone wants a laugh, plenty of typical internet certainty with no data). This guy is generally pretty solid on anything HK:
"The USP 45 grip is 7.87mm longer than the USP 9/40 grip. For the other discussions about similarity in USP45 and USP9/40 grip, I took some measurements.
USP 45
Grip Length = 54.15 mm
Grip Width = 30.72 mm
USP 9/40
Grip Length = 53.07 mm
Grip Width = 30.74 mm
Grip length was measured midway of the grip. As we can see, grip width is the same (0.02mm is margin of error). Grip length is similar with difference of about 1mm, give or take."
https://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handg...ip-size-3.html
Last edited by Salamander; 09-14-2019 at 02:00 PM.
After years of reading people's posts about what a PITA it is to detail strip a USP, I finally read through some printed out how-tos while doing my PT last night and dove in. Plan was to convert an already-LEM USPc to LEM-Match hybrid. The gun (bought used with LEM installed) had Heavy LEM, so the job turned out to consist of swapping back to the standard Compact hammer spring and the nickel flat spring. There are more parts than a Glock and it's a little bit fiddly getting everything lined up when installing the hammer and sear axles, but I wouldn't call it difficult. No big deal. Did a little bit of smoothing (fracture edges of stamped sheet parts, mostly) while I was in there, but there really wasn't much to do. Nice parts overall.
This pistol already had the heavy TRS installed. I don't think I'd want a lighter TRS than this on an LEM setup. I don't actually know which FPBS it has, but whatever it is is fine for now. The two steps up in stacking before hitting the wall with the heavy creep has changed to two much smaller steps in stacking that are less noticeable at speed (nickel sear spring) and then more of a squish for the wall/creep. Overall, it's acceptably smooth, but I don't expect it to ever be a nice Sig trigger. I do expect it to extract WWB 9mm cases, though.
Other stuff:
I compared the trigger to a spare USP .45 trigger I'd bought, thinking the geometry might be better. It turns out the full-size .45 trigger is set up to have less reach. It may be something to try if you wanted to shorten the reach for someone with really small hands. And a Compact trigger could increase the reach in a full-size gun, if you wanted to do that for some reason. My one issue with the pistol I worked on this morning is how far back the trigger breaks. Will take a little time to get used to it, I reckon. Don't have any hardware ideas; will work on software.
I fitted a USP .45 Compact mag catch. Notice I didn't write "installed," I wrote "fitted." The extended catch needs a little material removed from the section that abuts the underside of the trigger guard. Look at the frame, the standard catch, and the extended catch and it should become clear. Flattening out that raised section allows the catch lever to rotate fully upward, and the tab that holds the mag to fully engage the notch on the front of the mag. Inserting a magazine bumps the tab forward from the point the top of the mag reaches the catch tab, just like the standard part, and with the mag engaged, there is clearance between the catch and the trigger guard. It's fully engaged with the spring loading it against the mag.
Once the fit/function part was done, I did a little reduction on the extended paddles. They're just fiber- reinforced plastic, so it's easy to remove material with an X-Acto knife and sandpaper, and you don't even have to refinish anything. The stock extended paddles are just a little too big and kinda lumpy in awkward places. I left the length alone, but slimmed, tapered and smoothed them and undercut the undersides a bit.
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The USP 9 definitely feels smaller to me in the hand, even though the measurements are close. The difference is there, but it's not huge. If the USP 9 feels like it fits perfect, the USP 45 at worst will just feel slightly bigger than perfect, but should not really affect ability to grip/shoot it.
To me the big difference between the 9 and 45 is the grip height, and this might effect one's ability to conceal it. The 9 is noticeably shorter than the 45. The USP 9 is also shorter than the P30.
Here's some pics of a USP 9 with a 45 Tactical and Expert.
Any chance you could post a picture of the modified HK45 Compact mag release? I'd like to modify a couple for my USPs.
I've got both parts, just curious to see how much material you actually had to remove.
Last edited by Hunter Rose; 09-14-2019 at 03:36 PM.
Ugh. It's an HK45c catch. I did the shopping a long time ago. There's only one p/n of extended mag catch in my box of H&K parts, so it's not like I could use the wrong one...
Anyway, this is one I did awhile ago on my old police trade USP .45 FS. Same mod as for the USPc.
At left is the original USP catch. In the middle is an unfitted HK45c catch. On the right is the fitted catch before the paddle reduction.
Basically, the raised bar between the paddles needs to be shaved down to be flush with the rest of the forward-facing surface, so it fits like the USP catch. It might be half a mm of material to remove. Pretty simple. Shave with an X-Acto knife, file it flush and sand to make it smooth and clean up the edges. On the end of the tab itself (the part that engages the magazine notch), I also knock the peaks of the roughness off the stamping fracture surface and remove the burr.
With a mag inserted, the area between the paddles that I've shaved down is raised away from the trigger guard at least enough for a thick piece of paper or business card stock to slip freely between them, so I know the position of the mag catch is being controlled by full engagement with the mag.
The problem with not fitting it is that the raised bar runs into the relief on the underside of the trigger guard and prevents the catch from rotating all the way upward. This prevents the tab from protruding far enough into the magwell. It will engage the notch on the magazine, but not fully. Rather than being fully engaged in the notch, it's just hanging on the edge of the notch. There are reports of guns dropping mags under recoil. It's not clear to me whether that occurs immediately or if the problem is that over time, the tab wears the edge of the notch and softens/rounds the edge until the mag is no longer securely held. Possibly both. (The answer to most multi-factor problems is "it depends.")
The wear/damage issue is especially of concern with the plastic bodies on the full-size USP 9/40 mags. I haven't yet done this on a full-size USP 9/40, so I can't say for sure it will work properly there, but I would apply the same evaluation criteria. I do expect that the smaller, steel tab would be fine if it is fully engaged in the molded pocket in the magazine. I think the problems result from it engaging only the edge of the pocket. I do intend to test that with a few tens of thousands of rounds through one of these guns eventually. Just not there yet.
You also need to check the paddles for interference with any holster the gun will be used in. There's no good reason to assume that holster makers provide room for the larger paddle in their molds, and interaction with the holster could conceivably cause a mag to become disengaged from the catch and not be noticed until some time that it's really needed.
It's really, really important to get all the details of this right, because dropping mags under recoil or at another unintended time can get you kilt in da streetz.
I've posted my observations and reasoning here. If someone can explain how I'm wrong, I'd appreciate being told about it. I believe I've gotten it right, but I am not a licensed gunsmith or gunsmith instructor, so any action you take is entirely at your own risk.
Ergonomically, the unfitted catch also causes the paddles to sit a little low, underhanging the trigger guard, which makes their oversizeness even more annoying. So fitting it puts them in the correct alignment, then the reduction makes them the right size and shape, which is entirely to taste.
ETA:
Thinking about it further, it's conceivable that some shooters might inadvertently activate the oversized paddles due to gun movement during recoil and simply not notice that's what's happening. Which would be another reason to pay attention to the paddle reduction aspect. They only need to be big enough to work well for you, not any bigger.
Last edited by OlongJohnson; 09-14-2019 at 05:32 PM.
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Thanks for the pics, that's what I thought but pictures always help.
Normally I'm loathe to modify parts due to unintended 2nd and 3rd order effects, but since the tab that engages the mags is exactly for all the USPs with steel mags, this is one I'm OK with personally. Also, you can check to ensure the tab is fully engaging the recess in the magazine, since the recess has a hole in it. Take the guts out of a mag so it's just the hollow mag body, insert into grip, and then shine a light in the grip. If you hold it on its side you can actuate the mag release and see if the tab fully engages into the recess.
Last edited by Hunter Rose; 09-14-2019 at 06:33 PM.
I've been DAO, SAO and TDA for the past year+. No work with the LEM. Shot this Compact tonight, 50 rounds. Annoying tendency to hit low and left; a lot of work to do. On the good side, it's reasonably smooth, and I like it overall. Compared to a USP9c V1, where the rear corner of the control lever hammers the inside of my thumb to blister status before I'm done shooting, the smooth side of the LEM is a win. Even better, the tinge of tendonitis that I normally get in my strong-hand elbow after even a short session like this of DAO or DA/SA working the transition isn't there. So that's great!
So my plan is to shut the heck up about it until I've put a thousand or two rounds of WWB through it. I really hope it extracts them all. This will not be a 2kRC, as I will run a cotton swab around the rails and add a few drops of oil from time to time. That's just how I roll.
Last edited by OlongJohnson; 09-15-2019 at 08:33 PM.
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Low and left. Welcome to the “World of LEM”.
I have spent the better part of 15 years doing battle with it. The heavy LEM variant doesn’t help the situation either. I have found that lots of dryfire practice (most likely why my original suffered the firing pin failure) combined with a heavy dose of (this is NOT a target trigger) mentality is the only way to battle it.
All that said, I’ve come to a gentleman’s agreement with it and would not trade it.
Working diligently to enlarge my group size.
One thing I found that helped me learn the LEM was to take a DA/SA revolver along and shoot it in DA only, that and a snap cap, and dry fire practice a few minutes a day with the USP when you’re at home, and have time, just watch the front sight when dry firing. I put a blank piece of paper on the wall to get some nice contrast, you can see the front sight well against a blank piece of paper..
Last edited by ralph; 09-16-2019 at 08:41 AM.
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