Went to the USP 45 for CCW carry (after seriously considering the 1911). Anyone else?

[Hunter Rose]

So I figured I would start a new thread on the USP 45 Fullsize but focused more on its use in the CCW pistol role.

This resulted from the previous thread, where I was looking at switching to the 1911 or HK45 for carry over my current HK P30LS in 9mm. That thread, coupled with GJM's thread on the USP 45 in use as a field pistol firing 45 Super, ultimately resulted in me getting a USP 45 Expert and decided to go with the USP 45 Fullsize/Tactical/Expert family as my primary carry weapon.

For background, I've always liked 45 Auto as a pistol round and have never really strayed from cocked and locked single action pistols. Once I discovered AIWB carry, I discovered it was really no more difficult to conceal a full-size pistol than a compact. So I eventually ended up with the HK P30LS in 9mm. While I shot it well, I always felt more confident in the 1911 or HK45, and they seemed to require less effort to shoot accurately at speed/range. So I started considering going back to the 1911 as a primary carry gun.

During that process, and thanks to GJM's thread, I looked at the USP 45 Fullsize again, specifically the Expert model (since I found a great deal on one). After getting that, I realized that the USP 45 was pretty dang close to the overall same size as my P30LS and 1911 as far as it related to AIWB. For me and AIWB carry, the main issue with concealing a pistol is overall height, and the USP 45 is only 1/10 of an inch taller than a P30.

Here's some pics of the "giant" USP 45 Expert next to my 9mm P30LS and 1911 that let me do my decision:











So, I decided to take the plunge and try the old USP 45 as a carry gun.

I'd summarize what led me to the USP 45 as a carry gun as follows:

- HK reliability and durability
- HK accuracy (especially the laser beam accuracy of the Expert)
- 12+1 capacity in 45 Auto that is essentially the same size as my HK P30L or a Glock 17
- excellent SA Match trigger in the USP Tactical/Expert
- the blocky/flat sided USP grips provides excellent recoil control and a better grip over more recent "ergonomic" grips. I can get an excellent grip on the USP 45 whereas the HK45 tends to want to squirm in my hands.
- reduced felt recoil due to the USP recoil reduction system

For me, the only real "con" of the USP 45 is sight tracking. Due to the dual sping recoil reduction system, the front sight tends to lift up, over to the right, and the return diagonally to center rather than just lifting straight up and down with my P30LS or HK45.

So, I'm curious if anyone else is still carrying the USP 45 or a high capacity polymer 45 Auto over a 9mm, and if so, what your personal experience has been.

[Bergeron]

Does carry experience with the full-size USP in 9mm count? My USP9 was my first centerfire pistol, and my first carry pistol. As a straight, from-the-factory gun, I found it to be very well-rounded, without sharp edges or corners. I also found the USP grip to be on the shorter side of a full-size gun, and both of these things were very good for carry. The only real downside that I found was that it was a fairly thick gun, which I only really noticed once I started trying out 1911s.

I'd agree completely with your list of positives.

[Hunter Rose]

Does carry experience with the full-size USP in 9mm count?

Absolutely it counts. This thread would be great concentrated on how the USP works for a carry gun. I shot/carried a USP 9mm for years before going to the P30LS.

I tried to change the thread title to reflect it, but it only let's me change the title of the first post.

The USP is definitely a "thicker" gun compared to a 1911, but the USP 45 thickness compared to a P30/HK45 is almost inconsequential to me when actually carrying/concealing it in an AIWB holster. To me the real issue in concealing a pistol is the height of the gun/hiding the grip. I must say I was shocked when I realized the USP 45 with a flat floor plate magazine was only 1/10th of an inch taller than my P30LS. Due to the similar height, I find it no more difficult concealing the USP 45 than the P30LS.

[GJM]

I think the best argument for a USP full size is to be able to launch .45 and Super loads. The best reason to have a USP FS in 9mm is as a trainer for your USP in 45. I am still trying to find a good argument for a USP FS in .40, but I still have three or four.

[10mmfanboy]

I really miss my usp compact 45, that was my very first pistol. I've been carrying my p2000 the last few weeks because my ameriglo sight burned out on my px4cc already. Even though my p2000 is only about 3oz lighter fully loaded than the px4, I can definitely tell a difference. I forgot just how accurate the p2000 is! Can't really say I'm missing my px4 all that much. I definitely need to get a p30 mag release though.

[OlongJohnson]

I am still trying to find a good argument for a USP FS in .40, but I still have three or four.

How about, "It was less than $350 shipped and transferred, it's an early one with Ballard rifling so you could shoot lead if you wanted to, and the trigger has worn in so it's actually nice." Also, the first time you took it to the range, you shot it so well you thought, "Why do I have all that other stuff?"

[the Schwartz]

So I figured I would start a new thread on the USP 45 Fullsize but focused more on its use in the CCW pistol role.

This resulted from the previous thread, where I was looking at switching to the 1911 or HK45 for carry over my current HK P30LS in 9mm. That thread, coupled with GJM's thread on the USP 45 in use as a field pistol firing 45 Super, ultimately resulted in me getting a USP 45 Expert and decided to go with the USP 45 Fullsize/Tactical/Expert family as my primary carry weapon.

For background, I've always liked 45 Auto as a pistol round and have never really strayed from cocked and locked single action pistols. Once I discovered AIWB carry, I discovered it was really no more difficult to conceal a full-size pistol than a compact. So I eventually ended up with the HK P30LS in 9mm. While I shot it well, I always felt more confident in the 1911 or HK45, and they seemed to require less effort to shoot accurately at speed/range. So I started considering going back to the 1911 as a primary carry gun.

During that process, and thanks to GJM's thread, I looked at the USP 45 Fullsize again, specifically the Expert model (since I found a great deal on one). After getting that, I realized that the USP 45 was pretty dang close to the overall same size as my P30LS and 1911 as far as it related to AIWB. For me and AIWB carry, the main issue with concealing a pistol is overall height, and the USP 45 is only 1/10 of an inch taller than a P30.

Here's some pics of the "giant" USP 45 Expert next to my 9mm P30LS and 1911 that let me do my decision:











So, I decided to take the plunge and try the old USP 45 as a carry gun.

I'd summarize what led me to the USP 45 as a carry gun as follows:

- HK reliability and durability
- HK accuracy (especially the laser beam accuracy of the Expert)
- 12+1 capacity in 45 Auto that is essentially the same size as my HK P30L or a Glock 17
- excellent SA Match trigger in the USP Tactical/Expert
- the blocky/flat sided USP grips provides excellent recoil control and a better grip over more recent "ergonomic" grips. I can get an excellent grip on the USP 45 whereas the HK45 tends to want to squirm in my hands.
- reduced felt recoil due to the USP recoil reduction system

For me, the only real "con" of the USP 45 is sight tracking. Due to the dual sping recoil reduction system, the front sight tends to lift up, over to the right, and the return diagonally to center rather than just lifting straight up and down with my P30LS or HK45.

So, I'm curious if anyone else is still carrying the USP 45 or a high capacity polymer 45 Auto over a 9mm, and if so, what your personal experience has been.

Although I routinely carry a Glock 17 loaded with Speer 124-grain Gold Dots (+P) most of the time, during the winter when bulkier outer garments allow greater latitude (in terms of comfort) for larger platforms, I carry a full size H&K USP45 V1 (I have 3) and even less frequently, the fullsize H&K USP9 V1 (3 of those also).

Both USPs in those calibers are more accurate than I am, comfortable to shoot and very reliable. So many guns to carry, so little time...

[Exiledviking]

How about, "It was less than $350 shipped and transferred, it's an early one with Ballard rifling so you could shoot lead if you wanted to, and the trigger has worn in so it's actually nice." Also, the first time you took it to the range, you shot it so well you thought, "Why do I have all that other stuff?"

That's the kind of deal I'm looking for on a USP40 FS. Once I find one I'll get rid of my G22.3 RTF2.

[ralph]

I also got started with a 9mm USPc, about 3 years ago I was cruising the used counter, and much to my suprise was a 9mm USPc, NIB, 3 mags for $400 upon closer examination it was light LEM, with ambi saftey levers.. pretty odd.. I like odd stuff, so I bought it, and looking through the papers it had the factory test target..this pistol was made in 2014, and I know HK quit sending test targets to pistols going to the U.S. some time back, so, I figured this was a pistol that was supposed to go to the European market at some point, plus, it has a importers mark on the right side of the slide, that was nicely done in small font, and dosen't stick out like a sore thumb..

Checking around over at HK Pro, I found out that this was a special order factory built gun, ( supposedly for some large police agency in europe, 1500 were made, and delivery wasn't for some reason ,accepted)which is why this configuration(light lem, ambi saftey levers) is'nt listed in HK's catalog, and yes, the saftey levers work with a LEM trigger. My plan was, if I could'nt shoot the LEM well, I convert it to something else. Well, it turns out, the time I'd been putting in with DA/SA pistols paid off as I shot the LEM decently..

Fast forward to late last fall, and while looking on another website's classfieds I saw an ad where a guy was wanting to trade a USPc, in .45auto, for a G19, at that point, I had a Gen4 G19, that could use a good home, so I emailed him, and we traded even up, his USPc, 3mags, box, for my g19, 3 mags, box, I had a LEM kit in my parts bin from a few years earlier when I tried a LEM trigger in my HK45ct,because I wasn't willing to put the time in to learn the trigger (was shooting mostly Glocks then) I sucked with it, and took the LEM kit back out and converted the HK45ct back to DA/SA.. The USP showed up, it was in great shape, it had'nt been abused at all, the DA/SA trigger was horrid, really bad..I installed the LEM kit I had and it was a huge difference! It turns out it's quite shootable, the stock sights had to go..they were long dead meps that were 3 dot night sights, probably installed by HKUSA, anyway, I ordered a set of Dawsons black rear, fiber optic front, I had a problem with the Dawson rear, as it slid right through the factory dovetail, I ended up sending the slide to Dawson, and they made one to fit the slide, and installed the sights, that took a couple of months..I finally got it back,and went out and shot it and the sights were dead on, so, I put a bunch of rounds through it, to confirm that it was reliable, ordered a holster for it, and starting in May, started carrying it. So far so good, every time I take it to the range, it just runs.. I'm happy with it, I don't have alot of money tied up in it, and since I had a few extra mags for my HK45ct, they fit the USPc as well, plus I reload .45 auto, so ammo costs are reasonable for me. This turned out to be one of those rare deals where you just could'nt lose..

[Salamander]

I've carried a variety of HKs over the years, and for quite a while now my primary has been a P2000 9mm LEM. Along the way there have been other P2000's in a couple of calibers and a USP compact 45. What they've all had in common was outstanding reliability (the P2000's have averaged one stoppage per 3,000 rounds, and that usually attributed to bad ammo) and being ready to go out of the box. That is, whatever minor modifications I do (Trijicon HD sights, extended factory mag release, factory flat baseplates for mags) are personal preference rather than necessity. It's perfectly possible to shoot these as they're shipped, unlike some other brands.

At present I shoot USP's more accurately than most other options... my USP 45 Elite is perhaps the most accurate centerfire semi-auto pistol that I own, and the USPc 45 isn't bad either. While the P2000 is for the forseeable future going to keep the primary carry role, that's more because of the G19-like size, ergonomics, and easy concealability and because I run them a little better at speed.

The USP 45 Elite is relegated to range use. That six-inch O-ring barrel is awesome as is the long sight radius, it has excellent adjustable sights, and the match trigger is sweet. If I do my job it will shoot two inch freestyle groups at 15 yards with ease. That said, I wouldn't use it for carry. It's difficult for me to conceal something that large on my 5'10" 175-lb frame except in winter, the barrel is uncomfortable/too long for convenience getting in and out of a truck, holster options are few, the trigger is (for me) too light for a carry pistol, and the tolerances are too tight for the way I carry, too much time in the backcountry. For the first 400 rounds I ran hotter ammo and had a few stoppages with light loads, and at first it was so tight it was difficult to remove the barrel. It's finally fully broken in now and feeds almost anything, but I wouldn't want to get any dirt in there. The ambidextrous decocker also gets in the way and for a carry version I'd change that to a decocker only variant and remove the off-side paddle or just go LEM.

The Elite is one of my favorite pistols for it's intended use, and I'd be equally happy with an Expert. For real world carry though, I'd prefer a standard USP 45 with the 4.4-inch barrel and without the tight hand fitting. Although even that is at the upper limit of what I'm able to conceal, it works for cooler weather or outdoors and when in town I can still use one of my more compact HKs.

One other consideration: Shoot the V1 match trigger (DA/SA) Elite for a while, and I start pulling shots low with anything LEM and need to re-calibrate on that trigger. The only thing I can mix with LEM is DA revolver, which actually tends to improve LEM results. I have a spare LEM kit sitting and waiting for the next field-carry USP. The alternative would be to go all DA/SA USP for carry but I'm not there yet.

At the moment I'm patiently waiting for the right deal on a standard USP 45 to fill out the rotation, no hurry because I have a break between backcountry project sites for at least a couple months. I constantly re-evaluate the carry rotation to fit my needs at the time, the one constant for over a decade now has been one or more HKs in that rotation.