I would encourage you to become more definitive in your assertions instead of providing such ambiguity.Originally Posted by HCM
I would encourage you to become more definitive in your assertions instead of providing such ambiguity.
If the DA didn't insert himself into negotiations, whoever had the bright idea to involve him should also be canned. Our negotiators were separate from SWAT, and I didn't think all that highly of them, but they were an order of magnitude better than letting various untrained dipshits talk to suspects.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
In 1985 Philadelphia police used a helicopter to drop a bomb on a house occupied by MOVE. 11 people were killed and an entire neighborhood burned. Before the "air strike" police had fired 10,000 rounds into the compound associated with a black back to nature anarchist organization. The mayor was Philadelphia's first black mayor. He agreed to the attack which later brought about finger pointing back and forth, The FBI supplied the explosive used--according to information from that time.
Last edited by willie; 08-20-2019 at 02:26 PM.
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The move incident was a cluster fuck. The mayor sure threw the police Dept under the bus. Not to mention didn’t the mayor give a buddy the contract to rebuild the 150 houses burned down by the fire the bomb started? IIRC the police bomb was a five gallon gas can with C-4 on it. Philadelphia has always been a source of corruption and WTF moments but Krasner is a whole new level of fucked up. He is a career criminal defense lawyer and specialized in police “misconduct “ voting him in as DA is the voters of philly saying let’s burn this motherfucker down. My favorite Philly PD legendary story/ urban legend was the Easter Bunny confessions. To think Krasner might be worse for Philadelphia than John street boggles my mind. I can’t imagine the morale of the police Dept with a district attorney like Krasner. With Krasner refusing to prosecute criminals and his hatred of the police I’m sure has resulted in arrest numbers dropping.
Last edited by Poconnor; 09-02-2019 at 06:31 AM.
I’m not an explosives expert, but I don’t think that a gas can with C4 on it would ignite into a fireball. Gasoline in a liquid form is not flammable, it’s only flammable in its gaseous state. I would think that the explosion of C4 would rapidly expand and consume surrounding oxygen, preventing the gaseous state of the newly spreading gasoline from igniting. However, something on fire could ignite the newly spread gasoline, but I would guess that it it would be all over the neighborhood in small quantities, preventing massive conflagration.
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I have heard this material referenced a few times in conversations about that incident amongst various first responder groups. Nothing confirmed; just chatter.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tovex
I remember much speculation in the newspaper about the bomb. I’m sure much of what I read was incorrect. I do remember thinking that everyone in the move “family “ sounded crazy.
They were all stark raving mad.
I was at a wedding a few years after the MOVE bombing. The police chief who ordered it had become somewhat of a pariah and a punchline. He was at the wedding and we talked for a long time (about other things). Super nice guy, in that grizzled, old school South Philly cop kind of way. Like Rizzo.
Which reminds me, when I was 12 my dad took me and a friend to the Army-Navy game. There was some kind of “VIP” room we were able to get into at halftime with “VIP” hot dogs and sauerkraut. Over comes Rizzo and his security man to our table with a plate of hot dogs, asks if they can join us, we say sure, he sits down and asks us about school and sports and just chats it up with two 12-year-olds for 15 minutes as if he were our uncle. Nobody can ever say anything bad about Rizzo to me.
Josh: Without going into some of the techniques on a public forum, keep in mind that heat and/or flame will vaporize gasoline and unless something is starving the fire of oxygen, the same oxygen source will generally support the secondary gasoline fire. As you say, the liquid gasoline will not burn until it vaporized, which means that it (again generally) take some time to burn off.
I don't know how the "satchel charge" used on the MOVE house was constructed, but given the immediate fire there must have been some gasoline-like product that it ignited, though that could have been something pre-existing that was sitting around on the roof. That immediate fire did not look like the results of any military-approved satchel charge I ever saw, which leads me to believe the C-4/det cord/gasoline contraption of rumor might have been correct.
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