The End Of L.E. As We Knew It...the Bell Tolls

[the Schwartz]

Thanks. Once the possible 12 year prison sentence was behind him it took a great deal of pressure off of him, now it’s a question of what happens administratively. The jury was great, one juror sent a letter to him after the trial saying many on the jury felt he had been treated very poorly by his agency and she was very upset about that. He told me....one moment he was tired looking forward to the end of his shift/work week and the next he was in a pursuit that ended in a use of force. All in just a few minutes and his life was radically altered. He said that first night in County Jail was just crazy while they were trying to deny him bail, his LDF attorney quickly got that changed. The LDF guy by the way was awesome. Told him from the beginning he couldn’t imagine a jury convicting him and said the only thing he would let him plead to would be running a stop sign. Imagine being handcuffed behind the back inside your own department by DA Investigators. He even told them, “Guys, I’m not going to do anything you don’t have to handcuff me like this.” Then of course there was the press conference the chief called right after.....when no news agency was asking for one....complete with his booking photo and the description of his actions as a disgrace to the badge. All this after the patrol sergeant had signed off on the use of force that night and there were no issues at all that he was aware of. Imagine being called back in that Monday for a couple quick questions and then being handcuffed

One other point to consider, they also went after the two other officers who were there for failing to report. At trial one of them broke down crying when the DA was badgering her on the stand accusing her of not being truthful in what she saw and saying isn’t it true that you’re IA investigation will go better if the primary Officer is acquitted? She responded through tears that she wasn’t going to lie for him and she also wasn’t going to lie for the DA. Pretty impressive young officer. That IA is still pending resolution I believe. It does make the point also in that whatever you get yourself into...you're going to be pulling cover officers into it with you.

Point is nobody believes something like this will happen to them until it does, or happens to someone you are close to. It’s also easy to tell people to find a different path/career when they started the profession as a sworn officer at 22 and were non-sworn since 18 before that during college and are now in their mid 40’s. These job skills don’t exactly translate into the private sector and the bachelors degree in whatever you got it in 22 years ago isn’t exactly viewed as cutting edge knowledge today and who is going to want to hire a guy in his mid 40’s with no job experience in whatever the new field is at the pay/benefit rate he needs to match what he was making before?

What you describe sickens me. It seems to be that from here on out the new standard is "guilty until proven innocent" (especially for those wearing the "target" on their back of being a cop). A former partner of mine went through a somewhat similar event; it ended poorly for him. Fortunately, he has the standing and the financial ability (thank God) to pursue a J.D. I can only imagine how litigation will be effected when he gets done in a couple of years and returns to the system.

And LE agencies are wondering why there is suddenly a precipitous drop in personnel availability and positions going unfilled.

[blues]

I was fortunate in my career. The IA investigations I was subjected to turned out (rightfully) in my favor. (Non-shooting incidents.)

Have had a juror send a letter of thanks for my conduct of an investigation and multi-day testimony in court.

And have told a prosecutor or two, (and many defense attorneys), to pound sand over false statements they'd have had me endorse, all supported by sitting federal judges.

Gives one hope that there are folks out there who take their roles as IA investigators, jurors, and judges seriously, and still put the truth over conflicting interests.

Of course that was a few years ago...that was then...this is now.

[Totem Polar]

Judas H Priest on a jackhammer. @Sawyer, I am very sorry to be reading about your friend’s ordeal. It literally hurts my hard-ass, jaded heart.

Tangent time: I have, in bits and pieces here and there, been mulling over the defining characteristic of the P-F membership. While many members share many interests and traits, I’m coming to believe that the sole binding ideology on P-F isn’t even firearms; that’s a side effect, an indicator. The main commonality is this: An extreme intolerance of unjust, unwarranted forceful predation against the innocent—wherever they may be found.

This story qualifies. Call me triggered.

[paherne]

Thanks. Once the possible 12 year prison sentence was behind him it took a great deal of pressure off of him, now it’s a question of what happens administratively. The jury was great, one juror sent a letter to him after the trial saying many on the jury felt he had been treated very poorly by his agency and she was very upset about that. He told me....one moment he was tired looking forward to the end of his shift/work week and the next he was in a pursuit that ended in a use of force. All in just a few minutes and his life was radically altered. He said that first night in County Jail was just crazy while they were trying to deny him bail, his LDF attorney quickly got that changed. The LDF guy by the way was awesome. Told him from the beginning he couldn’t imagine a jury convicting him and said the only thing he would let him plead to would be running a stop sign. Imagine being handcuffed behind the back inside your own department by DA Investigators. He even told them, “Guys, I’m not going to do anything you don’t have to handcuff me like this.” Then of course there was the press conference the chief called right after.....when no news agency was asking for one....complete with his booking photo and the description of his actions as a disgrace to the badge. All this after the patrol sergeant had signed off on the use of force that night and there were no issues at all that he was aware of. Imagine being called back in that Monday for a couple quick questions and then being handcuffed

One other point to consider, they also went after the two other officers who were there for failing to report. At trial one of them broke down crying when the DA was badgering her on the stand accusing her of not being truthful in what she saw and saying isn’t it true that you’re IA investigation will go better if the primary Officer is acquitted? She responded through tears that she wasn’t going to lie for him and she also wasn’t going to lie for the DA. Pretty impressive young officer. That IA is still pending resolution I believe. It does make the point also in that whatever you get yourself into...you're going to be pulling cover officers into it with you.

Point is nobody believes something like this will happen to them until it does, or happens to someone you are close to. It’s also easy to tell people to find a different path/career when they started the profession as a sworn officer at 22 and were non-sworn since 18 before that during college and are now in their mid 40’s. These job skills don’t exactly translate into the private sector and the bachelors degree in whatever you got it in 22 years ago isn’t exactly viewed as cutting edge knowledge today and who is going to want to hire a guy in his mid 40’s with no job experience in whatever the new field is at the pay/benefit rate he needs to match what he was making before?

Is this the incident that was recently in the PORAC news? If so, I was shocked to read it and the LT, Capt. and Chief need to be fired. I would not use force if I worked for that department, hell I wouldn't take police reports, just type "see video" and a synopsis.

[Sawyer]

Is this the incident that was recently in the PORAC news? If so, I was shocked to read it and the LT, Capt. and Chief need to be fired. I would not use force if I worked for that department, hell I wouldn't take police reports, just type "see video" and a synopsis.

I don’t want to confirm or deny but let’s just say I think you’re a guy who’s probably able to connect dots pretty well.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Thanks.

Very sorry for what your friend has experienced. And each & every one of those aftermaths have extremely telling effects across the profession.

[AMC]

The local effects here are very telling. When I took the written test at the Civic Auditorium to get in the Department in 1990, there were 3000 people there that day. 18 months ago they had 170 people show up. Three weeks later only 50 followed through for the Physical Agility test. Our academy classes have gone from 50 recruits to 30, and now to 20.....5 of whom are recycles from previous classes. That's the norm now...too few new recruits to justify a class.

Even more disturbing are the young guys fleeing to other agencies. It's become a hemorrhage. And apparently 140 or more currently in Backgrounds with other agencies. Over the next two years our numbers will be devastated, and it will be an actual crisis....at least one I know of just came north to you guys, @ErickGelhaus. I see all of these guys when they leave, when they come to turn in their guns. The long commute, cost of living, etc. are issues, but overwhelmingly it's the politics of the City that are driving them away. They just can't take it anymore.

[blues]

All of you who are still on the job are in my thoughts each and every day.

I often wondered if I'd regret retiring from L.E. when I did...that question gets answered here daily.

[John Hearne]

We've always had a lot of competition for our jobs. When I got on in 2000, I had worked part-time for nine years. Even recently, it wasn't uncommon for someone to work part-time for five years and then take their first job in an undesirable, urban location.

No more. One guy I know was able to get a permanent job after one season, without going to an urban duty station. I finally hired a job at a more rural duty station after we declined to hire anyone from the last certificate of eligibles. My main criteria is prior honest LE experience - like have you ever arrested anyone. This took my group of likely candidates from 21 to 3.

We still have open positions and have a meeting planned to figure out how we're going to fill them. Nobody wants to do this job any more and those who do aren't accumulating much actual experience.

[El Cid]

Parts of it yes, parts of it no.

I don't try to use "minimum force" because that's a mind reader's game. I try to use reasonable force. Trying for "minimal force" often equates to "not quite enough force" and the problem isn't solved, grows, then more force is ultimately used. Go take a peek in the videos thread. A real good example is the guy outside the bus who eventually turns into a lethal force problem because nobody went hands on with him when he was a non-compliant problem.

I do not treat a 20 year old differently than a 21 year old.

I do not always give a verbal warning and situations often dictate it would be foolish to do so. I practice "ask, tell, make" when I can, but sometimes you have to throw the punch, perform the take-down, or pull the trigger NOW.

SCOTUS has laid out a very reasonable standard that protects both officers and the communities they police. This is just bullshit pandering or bullshit ignorance. Likely both.

Bravo! I’ve read enough of your posts over the years to know if you’re ever a chief or sheriff I’d eagerly work for you.