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Thread: The End Of L.E. As We Knew It...the Bell Tolls

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    Telling a lie became misrepresenting the truth. Stealing became borrowing an item without asking. Cheating became not working independently. Rules became agreements.
    This kind of pandering language just baffles me. How can someone function in the post-school real world not knowing there are rules? At least they won't have their feelings hurt later in life by being labeled a 'convicted felon.'
    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

  2. #42
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC_P View Post
    This kind of pandering language just baffles me. How can someone function in the post-school real world not knowing there are rules? At least they won't have their feelings hurt later in life by being labeled a 'convicted felon.'
    Soon the laws will be optional, like choosing from Column A or B at a restaurant. The ones you don't agree with can be conveniently labeled racist, sexist, elitist or some other convenient "ist". When the socialists take over we can look forward to more fun with words...and re-education camps.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    Representative Lacy Clay (D-MO) has teamed up with Representative Ro Khanna (D-CA) to introduce legislation that would create a single federal standard for use of force. Clay and Khanna held a press conference Friday to introduce the measure aimed at combating misuse of force by law enforcement.

    The Police Exercising Absolute Care with Everyone Act of 2019, or PEACE Act, would require officers not use force unless “such force is necessary, as a last resort, to prevent imminent and serious bodily injury or death to the officer or another person; the use of such forces creates no substantial risk of injury to a third person; and reasonable alternatives to the use of such force have been exhausted.”

    It would require officers to use a verbal warning before using force and use the least amount of force when interacting with pregnant women; individuals under the age of 21; elderly persons; persons with mental, behavioral, or physical disabilities or impairments; persons experiencing perceptual or cognitive impairments due to use of alcohol, narcotics, hallucinogenic, or other drugs; persons suffering from a serious medical condition; and persons with limited English proficiency...
    So you all are not Dr's. How are you supposed to decide who is suffering from a cognitive impairment?

    I suspect the answer will be that Clay and Khanna, may have to be tasered, to get them to comply, with a several day hold while they get diagnosed, to determine their impairment.

  4. #44
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    We had a string of new administrators. One director said that some employees may require being placed in re-education programs. I pointed out that the term became well known during China's Cultural Revolution. Those that were not executed were sent to re-education camps. Much later those seen as non-compliant were required to participate in employee growth plans. I made tons of money ghost writing the assignments. Once it was pointed out to me by a colleague that although I was a good guy, I was the most contrary son of a bitch on the campus. He asked why I had not been placed on a growth plan. I didn't tell him that I had polaroid pictures.........

  5. #45
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    Anyone heard the latest about being "Justice Involved" replacing "Convicted Felon"or some such nonsense? San Francisco...of course.
    Last edited by Redhat; 08-26-2019 at 10:53 AM.

  6. #46
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
    Anyone heard the latest about being "Justice Involved" replacing "Convicted Felon"or some such nonsense? San Francisco...of course.
    That's been around for several years. it's just know gaining notice.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    That's been around for several years. it's just know gaining notice.
    Nope, they made it official last week when the Board of Supervisors made it law.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by BK14 View Post
    That’s how my agency was for a bit. We still have a lot doing that. This mindset drives me up the wall. We have a job to do. Either do it within the confines of what you have to work with, or find a new place or profession (not directed at Andre).

    Realistically, I have 25 years before I can actually retire. When I was on patrol, my on views didn’t drop, I just kept taking calls, and looking for on-views in my free time. Now the unit I’m on is essentially only on-views, but we have cameras. Either way, make the policies you work under work so you can still do your job, or find a new path.
    I believe your heart is in the right place here but I think that’s a simplistic view more common to someone with less experience and 25 years to go rather then someone who has more experience and 5-10 years to go. As the kids would say, you do you, but I’d avoid criticizing others for their current view and response to the rapid changes in the LE world. A good friend of mine was recently arrested for excessive force made during an arrest after a car stop. Every officer I know from multiple agencies believed the arrest to be BS after watching the body cam footage. Didn’t stop his agency and DA’s office from arresting him, trying to deny him bail, and trying him for multiple felonies. He was just acquitted by a jury thankfully but they’re still trying to do him internally and he had to take his kids out of school because the DA talked about what a terrible guy he was in the media. It’s going on 2 years now and the stress and pressure to his family have been debilitating, not too mention what his financial future will be if they succeed in firing him. His oldest son had to graduate high school on independent study after all the crap he started taking at school. When we’ve talked he pointed out if he just wouldn’t have been on that car stop the last couple years of terror and damage to his family never would have happened. I for one will never criticize an experienced officer who looks around and makes a very much educated decision to avoid OV activity in this currently changing and uncertain time. Your families well being may literally hang in the balance. Until you’ve been the guy talking to a very good friend of yours who is a mountain of a man, who is now crying about the fear of what will happen, not to him, but to his family as a result of an on view call, try to be open that some people are making the decisions they are for very good reasons.

  9. #49
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Sawyer, I'm very sorry to read about your friend's experience. It bodes poorly for those left trying to do a good job knowing that any action taken in good faith, (even if perceived as a misstep), may lead to loss of employment and dire legal, financial and familial consequences.

    The handwriting on the wall has been around for decades but now its message is inescapable. It seems virtually insurmountable to stem that tide.
    Last edited by blues; 09-20-2019 at 10:09 AM.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  10. #50
    Thanks. Once the possible 12 year prison sentence was behind him it took a great deal of pressure off of him, now it’s a question of what happens administratively. The jury was great, one juror sent a letter to him after the trial saying many on the jury felt he had been treated very poorly by his agency and she was very upset about that. He told me....one moment he was tired looking forward to the end of his shift/work week and the next he was in a pursuit that ended in a use of force. All in just a few minutes and his life was radically altered. He said that first night in County Jail was just crazy while they were trying to deny him bail, his LDF attorney quickly got that changed. The LDF guy by the way was awesome. Told him from the beginning he couldn’t imagine a jury convicting him and said the only thing he would let him plead to would be running a stop sign. Imagine being handcuffed behind the back inside your own department by DA Investigators. He even told them, “Guys, I’m not going to do anything you don’t have to handcuff me like this.” Then of course there was the press conference the chief called right after.....when no news agency was asking for one....complete with his booking photo and the description of his actions as a disgrace to the badge. All this after the patrol sergeant had signed off on the use of force that night and there were no issues at all that he was aware of. Imagine being called back in that Monday for a couple quick questions and then being handcuffed

    One other point to consider, they also went after the two other officers who were there for failing to report. At trial one of them broke down crying when the DA was badgering her on the stand accusing her of not being truthful in what she saw and saying isn’t it true that you’re IA investigation will go better if the primary Officer is acquitted? She responded through tears that she wasn’t going to lie for him and she also wasn’t going to lie for the DA. Pretty impressive young officer. That IA is still pending resolution I believe. It does make the point also in that whatever you get yourself into...you're going to be pulling cover officers into it with you.

    Point is nobody believes something like this will happen to them until it does, or happens to someone you are close to. It’s also easy to tell people to find a different path/career when they started the profession as a sworn officer at 22 and were non-sworn since 18 before that during college and are now in their mid 40’s. These job skills don’t exactly translate into the private sector and the bachelors degree in whatever you got it in 22 years ago isn’t exactly viewed as cutting edge knowledge today and who is going to want to hire a guy in his mid 40’s with no job experience in whatever the new field is at the pay/benefit rate he needs to match what he was making before?

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