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Thread: “How do you propose to end mass shootings then?”

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Holy crap, is there an executive summary? Does anyone who is not a humanities professor actually read things like this? This article is unnecessarily long by about a factor of 10.
    For me the money quote, and one with which I substantially agree, is this.

    “What all liberal gun-control proposals seek to do, and all they seek to do, is to reduce and eventually eliminate the right of ordinary citizens to possess firearms. These proposals treat the armed power of the state with, at best, benign indifference. They ignore, or dismiss as of no importance, the way these policies will further weaken the power of the citizen relative to the state. There is a definite ideology underlying all this: That the state – the American capitalist state we live in – should have a monopoly of armed force; that this state is a benign, neutral arbiter which will use its armed force in support of and not against its citizens, to mediate conflicts fairly and promote just outcomes in ways that the citizens themselves cannot be trusted to do.

    All the liberal gun-control proposals do, and I would suggest the anti-gun-rights position in general must, rest on this premise. For reasons set forth below, I think it’s wrong-headed, and I do not see how one can deny that it is elitist and authoritarian.

    This ideology is most likely to exude from those whose lived experience is that the armed power of the state does overwhelmingly act on their behalf, that the police are their friends – people who are secure in their implicit understanding that they have nothing to fear, personally or politically, from the armed agents of the state, and that when they call those agents to help them, they will come and help them, and not beat them down or shoot them on sight, “by accident.””


    And

    Somehow, a lot of people have come to imagine that depreciating versus valuing citizens’ gun rights is a left-right dichotomy Only in the ridiculous political discourse of the United States, where Barack Obama is a “marxist" (or any kind of “leftist” at all), can citizens' right to gun ownership be considered a purely right-wing demand. The notion that an armed populace should have a measure of power of resistance to the heavily armed power of the state is, if anything, a populist principle, and has always been part of the revolutionary democratic traditions of the left. The notion that disarming the people in a capitalist state – and one in severe socio-economic crisis, at that – would be some kind of victory for progressive, democratic forces, something that might help move us toward an emancipatory transformation of society, derives from no position on the political left. As one commentator puts it: “I can’t imagine why anyone would expect the state’s gun control policies to display any less of a class character than other areas of policy. Regardless of the ‘liberal’ or ‘progressive’ rhetoric used to defend gun control, you can safely bet it will come down harder on the cottagers than on the gentry, harder on the workers than on the Pinkertons, and harder on the Black Panthers than on murdering cops."
    Last edited by Medusa; 08-19-2019 at 03:42 PM.

  2. #112
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapid Butterfly View Post
    For me the money quote, and one with which I substantially agree, is this.

    [I]“... ignore, or dismiss as of no importance, the way these policies will further weaken the power of the citizen relative to the state. There is a definite ideology underlying all this: That the state – the American capitalist state we live in – should have a monopoly of armed force; that this state is a benign, neutral arbiter which will use its armed force in support of and not against its citizens, to mediate conflicts fairly and promote just outcomes in ways that the citizens themselves cannot be trusted to do.
    I agree as well, but the main reason I own guns (besides the shooting sports) is to protect my family from criminal individuals or organizations, not the government. Criminals often target minorities, so it always surprises me when members of those groups are not fully in support of the 2nd Amendment.
    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 08-19-2019 at 03:57 PM.
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  3. #113
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I agree as well, but the main reason I own guns (besides the shooting sports) is to protect my family from criminal individuals or organizations, not the government. Criminals often target minorities, so it always surprises me when members of those groups are not fully in support of the 2nd Amendment.

    Going further, the one flaw in the quoted line of thinking (from the polemecist) is that disarming the populace will always result in a state monopoly of force. Maybe... but the history of parts of Latin America says that control of power can also end up being split between the state and criminal factions, with Jose and Jane Q Public caught helplessly in the middle. That’s also a thing.
    Last edited by Totem Polar; 08-19-2019 at 04:15 PM.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I agree as well, but the main reason I own guns (besides the shooting sports) is to protect my family from criminal individuals or organizations, not the government. Criminals often target minorities, so it always surprises me when members of those groups are not fully in support of the 2nd Amendment.
    I fully agree. And I truly enjoy shooting sports and firearms as mechanical devices.

  5. #115
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    Saw a congressdope on the tube , we need UBC. That's opposed by the gun companies because they want to sell more guns.

    Oh, don't new sales go through FFLs. Never mind!
    Last edited by Glenn E. Meyer; 08-19-2019 at 04:42 PM.

  6. #116
    Member wvincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
    Saw a congressdope on the tube , we need UBC. That's opposed by the gun companies because they want to sell more guns.

    Oh, don't new sales go through FFLs. Never mind!
    No, they buy them direct off the internet, shipped to their homes. Or, at least that's what most of the 2020 Dem hopeful's are saying in their stump speeches.
    "And for a regular dude I’m maybe okay...but what I learned is if there’s a door, I’m going out it not in it"-Duke
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  7. #117
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  8. #118
    Glock Collective Assimile Suvorov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guinnessman View Post
    Peter King is the epitome of a RINO (A term that pains me to use as I am a contributor to RINO Rescue and have a fondness for the 4 legged animals. Why can’t the poachers hunt RINOs in America?).

  9. #119
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes – 5 times the average. (US Dept. Of Health/Census)

    90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.

    85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)

    80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes – 14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

    71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

    43% of US children live without their father [US Department of Census]

    40 percent more likely to raise children in poverty

    80 percent of adolescents in psychiatric hospitals are fatherless

    70 percent of adolescents in juvenile detention facilities are fatherless

    70 percent of childhood pregnancies occur in fatherless homes



    What is the root cause of fatherlessness?

  10. #120
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    Yes, I’m aware that not every single mass shooter was fatherless.

    There’s a side issue of poorly formed and weak fathers.

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