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Thread: “New York Reload”

  1. #1
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    “New York Reload”

    This may be a dumb question, but how does one go about practicing a “New York reload?” Does one drop the empty gun onto the ground before drawing the second gun? Is the second gun supposed to be set up for being drawn by the dominant hand again, or is it typically set up for a support hand draw?

    And does anyone actually practice this?


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  2. #2
    I'm unaware of anyone who really practices this.

    Generally speaking, dropping a loaded firearm is considered a pretty high risk event. People have a tendency to grab falling stuff, and pull the trigger. Some guns can go bang if they fall at the wrong angle. It's an immediate DQ in USPSA. Even unloaded you normally you don't do it on purpose. It's hard to know what direction the muzzle might be facing when it strikes the ground, what part might strike the ground first, it could damage the firearm (sights don't usually agree with getting smacked around), and there is a risk of discharge in a weapon that has even the remote likelyhood of being loaded. An activity where you're practicing a ton of repetitions of the same action and face serious risk of complacency that could result in loss of life... that means it's likely not a great idea to drop a gun.

    I see no positive, efficient way to train it. That being said, I think the NY reload is still an incredibly valid technique. Perhaps an underestimated one.

    If I wanted to practice it, I would likely do so broken down into two parts, ditching the empty firearm and retrieving the loaded one. I think dropping a blue gun (for safety reasons) would be the best way to practice the first half of the task. The second half would be a standard draw from where ever your second firearm is.

    Personally, I think this technique is probably best used with stashed revolvers. They suffer from low capacity and slow reloads. Grabbing another is likely faster than the reload for many. I also think this method is best used with firearms that are not carried on the person. If memory serves there was a jewelry clerk who put the NY reload to devastating effect against robbers, multiple times. He kept .357s stashed in various places along his store's counter and when he emptied one he grabbed the next. That really seems like the best use of the NY reload to me. Trying to become truly proficient with multiple draw strokes is going to be tough, and dropping a weapon that could actually still be loaded (like if you short stroke a trigger, or miscount, or generally don't become the iceman when fighting for your life).

    So honestly, I wouldn't practice it if it were me. It might be one of those techniques where overthinking it hurts more than it helps. Out of ammo? Get the next one. It seems more like an impromptu OODA loop shortcut for those who happen to have a pocket gun on them as well after already having used their primary handgun.

    -Cory
    Last edited by Cory; 08-14-2019 at 08:47 PM.

  3. #3
    Agree with Cor_man. It’s time has passed unless the shooter carries 2 or more revolvers. I have carried 2 pistols for as long as I’ve been in LE but I’m not reaching for the BUG unless my primary has a catastrophic failure, takes an incoming round, is taken from me, or all my mags are depleted. While I do practice drawing my BUG I don’t really practice dropping an empty full size gun first. Maybe I should? Never gave it much thought as I believe it’s a conscious and obvious decision.

    Curious what the P-F thoughts are now that we’re discussing it. I mean, most of us practice dropping a slung long gun and transitioning to a handgun...

    ETA - if I’m having to quick draw my BUG after my primary is used up I’m having an exceptionally bad day.
    Last edited by El Cid; 08-14-2019 at 09:23 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by nalesq View Post
    And does anyone actually practice this?
    No, not exactly. But a part of my morning dry-fire is to repeatedly draw-and-shoot one headshot at 7 yards (WHO). I've been doing it daily for a little over 4 years now, and it seems helpful. It's not quite a NY reload but, if one's BUG is worn on the off-side, I like to think the utility is similar.
    Last edited by Duces Tecum; 08-14-2019 at 10:13 PM.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nalesq View Post

    And does anyone actually practice this?
    Cowboy action shooters. That’s probably about it, at least categorically.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidheshooter View Post
    Cowboy action shooters. That’s probably about it, at least categorically.
    Used to be that PPC would have folks running two full sized DA revolvers and the fast guys would drop a spent gun as they drew the second one.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    In the way back time machine when I still had an issued handgun, I spent several weekly range sessions messing around with the NY reload. Since I had a pistol that belonged to the gov't, I didn't care too much about dropping it when it was empty (I didn't carry it on duty anyway - used an authorized personal weapon). I set up drills as follows:

    I would shoot a modified "El Prez" (couldn't do facing movements on the range we used, so I started facing the targets). I would have a shooting buddy load up a bunch of P228 magazines with 3-7 rounds of ammunition, then have him load the pistol for me. I would holster up not knowing how many rounds were in my pistol, then shoot the drill. As a baseline, I'd shoot the drill with an emergency unplanned reload using a full magazine on my belt, and record that time. Then I would have the pistol reloaded with a random magazine, and re-run the drill using a NY reload, using a 642 and PM9 as backups. I would draw the BUG from pockets (strong hand, weak hand, front and back), or from the off hand belt (OWB and IWB and IWB x-draw with the j-frame). Without exception, the unplanned emergency reload was faster, some times SIGNIFICANTLY faster, and more accurate in the post-reload shooting.

    Then I switched up the drill, using the PM9 as primary with 642 as BUG, and again with the 642 as primary and PM9 as BUG (didn't have a second j-frame to do the classic "NY reload"). Using the PM9 and reloading from a full magazine was marginally faster and more accurate than transitioning, except when drawing the 642 from the strong side back pocket. The only time transitioning to a second handgun was faster for me than a reload was when using a revolver as primary. Because of a number of injuries to my support hand and wrist, shooting weak hand only with ANY pistol is slow and difficult for me to maintain accuracy, so someone less gimp might have better shooting results after the "NY reload." But, as many folks have figured out without burning up a bunch of (free) ammo and dropping an expensive pistol in the dirt over and over, if you're shooting a modern semi-auto, a reload is almost always going to be a better option than a "NY reload."

    Why carry a BUG, then? For me it's for the for the "Oh $hi+" moment when my primary uber reliable pistol goes TU in the middle of a fight, or my strong hand is out of commision, and I have to shoot gimp.

  8. #8
    I've done it rarely in winter. I would draw and fire the J frame from a coat pocket, drop it, and draw the pistol on my belt. I think most of the time, it would be more efficient to reload the primary pistol rather then access a smaller backup.

  9. #9
    I frequently carry a pair of j-frames. In warm weather I carry one in each front pant pocket. In cold weather I carry one in front pant pocket and the other in opposite side coat pocket.

    Dry fire reps consist of drawing from both sides and transitioning from empty gun to reload gun. I've practiced transitions using a few different techniques to include dropping the empty gun, hanging on to the empty gun, and re-pocketing the empty gun. For me re-pocketing is a no go for the pant pockets but really easy in my cold weather coat. Hanging on to the empty gun works fine if you don't need that hand for another task. I also practice fire then draw from inside the pocket of my coat.

    When practicing drop transitions, the dogs bed comes in handy.

    Live fire reps are pretty much the same. If I'm gonna practice drops during the transition I download the drop gun to one live round. Every spring when Duluth Trading clearances out their puffy jackets for $45 I buy a new one and sacrifice last years jacket for pocket shot training the next fall.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter Norville's Avatar
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    Back in the old bowling pins days I’d start with one revolver, drop it into a padded box and draw a second. It was an emergency reload in normal 5 pin events, but a necessity in team events.

    Never knew it was done in PPC.

    These days it’s usually a snub in the outer coat pocket in cold weather as a “break contact “ solution to allow time to access the primary semi auto under the coat. And I don’t really practice it.

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