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Thread: Why aren't there more red dots with variable dot sizes?

  1. #1
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    Why aren't there more red dots with variable dot sizes?

    I was looking for a red dot for a Ruger MK4 pistol I have on the way and the guys over at rimfirecentral.com love the Matchpoint II red dot which interestingly comes with a dial that will let you select a 2, 4, 6 or 8 MOA dot or a circle with a dot in the center or a crosshair circle with a dot in the middle.

    I understand it's probably not bombproof like a Trijicon or an Aimpoint but with Holosun, Sig Optics, Steiner etc making red dots with variable reticle patterns (Mostly just toggling between a circle, dot and circle-dot) why don't more companies making red dots with several sizes you can switch between.

    Right now everything is going 2 MOA which is great for longer range accurate but definitely slower. How great would it be if there was an option to switch between a 2 MOA for longer distances and a 8 MOA for CQB stuff?

    For that matter why isn't there a red dot reticle pattern with a BDC built in with a 6-8MOA dot in the center for 1-300 yard shots and then a 2 MOA dot for 400 and a 1 MOA dot down below at 500 yards or whatever makes sense. I've seen ones where there is multiple dots for BDC but not multiple sized dots.

  2. #2
    Get astigmatism in your dominant eye then they all are using the brightness knob ...
    Last edited by STI; 08-11-2019 at 04:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STI View Post
    Get astigmatism in your dominant eye then they all are using the brightness knob ...
    I have a mild bit of it which is kind of how I found that Matchpoint 2 because I was asking the rimfire guns "Anyone make a tube red dot with a 6 MOA dot?"

    Because I noticed smaller dots look like stars or bloom and larger dots look crisp. I've moved to ACOGS for all my rifles because of this.

  4. #4
    There's a lot to unpack here so I'll touch on a few key things that stuck out to me.

    2 moa dots aren't slower and if you need an 8 moa dot for cqb, training and time behind the gun is what you need.

    A 6-8 moa dot at 100-300 yards is pretty much useless. The dot would be covering 18-24" at 300 yards.

    If you feel you need something bigger than a 2 moa dot, the Holosun with the Eotech reticle might serve you well. I thought I'd like it, but I didn't.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Friday View Post
    There's a lot to unpack here so I'll touch on a few key things that stuck out to me.

    2 moa dots aren't slower and if you need an 8 moa dot for cqb, training and time behind the gun is what you need.

    A 6-8 moa dot at 100-300 yards is pretty much useless. The dot would be covering 18-24" at 300 yards.

    If you feel you need something bigger than a 2 moa dot, the Holosun with the Eotech reticle might serve you well. I thought I'd like it, but I didn't.
    2 MOA dots are slower for me; they are harder to find and they look like a starburst at any usable brightness level; they are also slower for a lot of other people too so I don't know how you can make blanket statements saying they aren't slower as if it's some universal truth and saying I need to "git gud" without knowing anything else about me.

    6 MOA is plenty small enough to hit a silhouette at 300 yards; the average person is about 18" wide. You call that useless and if you wanted to hunt smaller game with it I guess it would be but even 8 MOA dot is smaller than a standard issue front sight post on any rifle with a 16" or longer barrel... so by your logic iron sights are useless at 300 yards?

    Neither Holosun nor Eotech have a center dot larger than 2 MOA; adding the circle doesn't help it not look like a burst and turning it down so it doesn't starburst makes the circle harder to see too.

    If you were going to insult me without contributing anything useful why did you bother to post at all? You like smaller dots; cool good for you I'm happy the market makes dozens of products that meets your demands but they don't make anything that meets my demands and I'm curious why because I don't think I'm the only one with eyes like mine.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by mrozowjj View Post
    2 MOA dots are slower for me; they are harder to find and they look like a starburst at any usable brightness level; they are also slower for a lot of other people too so I don't know how you can make blanket statements saying they aren't slower as if it's some universal truth and saying I need to "git gud" without knowing anything else about me.
    You made the blanket statement that 2 moa dots are slower, I responded. If you want to use a giant dot to mask the problem instead of working to fix it, rock on.

    6 MOA is plenty small enough to hit a silhouette at 300 yards; the average person is about 18" wide. You call that useless and if you wanted to hunt smaller game with it I guess it would be but even 8 MOA dot is smaller than a standard issue front sight post on any rifle with a 16" or longer barrel... so by your logic iron sights are useless at 300 yards?
    If you think covering the entire torso of a target at 300 yards is a recipe for success, I'm not sure there's much else to discuss. A 2 moa dot that is covering 6" at 300 yards has a lot of room for error.

    Neither Holosun nor Eotech have a center dot larger than 2 MOA; adding the circle doesn't help it not look like a burst and turning it down so it doesn't starburst makes the circle harder to see too.
    Some of the RMR's have larger dots, but there's a reason you don't see many being used on long guns and why the big companies don't really make a rifle optic with a huge dot.

    If you were going to insult me without contributing anything useful why did you bother to post at all? You like smaller dots; cool good for you I'm happy the market makes dozens of products that meets your demands but they don't make anything that meets my demands and I'm curious why because I don't think I'm the only one with eyes like mine.
    I wasn't trying to insult you, but I should have known that kid gloves were required when I saw Seattle in your location. If the market doesn't make anything that meets your demands, that might be a clue that your demands are not really a good solution.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter rdtompki's Avatar
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    The larger the dot the greater the battery drain for the same "brightness". Power requirements for an 8 MOA dot should be on the order of 16 times the drain of a 2 MOA battery. Perceptually, a larger dot may not have to be as bright as it's smaller cousin to be useful, but large dots in a C-more Railway eat batteries compared to the advertised life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdtompki View Post
    The larger the dot the greater the battery drain for the same "brightness". Power requirements for an 8 MOA dot should be on the order of 16 times the drain of a 2 MOA battery. Perceptually, a larger dot may not have to be as bright as it's smaller cousin to be useful, but large dots in a C-more Railway eat batteries compared to the advertised life.
    It's definitely possible to have a larger dot with longer battery life, Trijicon makes a 6.5 MOA RMR that has a battery life measured in years. Maybe it won't be as long as an Aimpoint but as long as it's a LED and not holographic like a EoTech it should be possible.

  9. #9
    Site Supporter rdtompki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrozowjj View Post
    It's definitely possible to have a larger dot with longer battery life, Trijicon makes a 6.5 MOA RMR that has a battery life measured in years. Maybe it won't be as long as an Aimpoint but as long as it's a LED and not holographic like a EoTech it should be possible.
    Of course. Different designs will have widely varying efficiencies. I was referring to designs such as the C-more Railway which have interchangeable dot modules. The typical C-more application doesn't demand a long battery life and I suspect many shooters run with a much brighter dot than necessary just 'cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdtompki View Post
    Of course. Different designs will have widely varying efficiencies. I was referring to designs such as the C-more Railway which have interchangeable dot modules. The typical C-more application doesn't demand a long battery life and I suspect many shooters run with a much brighter dot than necessary just 'cause.
    I was thinking of something more like the Matchdot II that bullseye pistol shooters use that actually lets you select different dot sizes on the fly.

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