I’m entirely with you, there isn’t much more the police could have done at that point. Given the totality of the circumstances, it would have been pretty naive to assume the guy picked up the pistol to turn it into the officers in order to comply with the order. They didn’t have a choice but to use some kind of force immediately.Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's
My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.
Didn't you get the memo? "Run away!"
There's nothing civil about this war.
Family member said they should have "continued to negotiate".
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
seems appropriate...
Chris
Have him come to the station sometime after dawn instead of waking him up early to take his shit. See if he had an attorney listed and arrange a surrender of weapons through the attorney. Secure his gun as soon as he puts it down so he can't just pick it up again and have a struggle ensue for the weapon.
You know, something sensible that doesn't endanger officers and citizens alike when they go to illegally seize someone's weapons......
Least, that the way we Arizona cops try to roll......
We'll have to disagree that they were "illegally seizing" someone's weapons. The order went through the courts, there was due process, no law was violated.
Really? With an emergency PO you'd just call up his attorney and say "hey, bring down all your guns. ok?" That's kind of trusting of you guys.
I wasn't there but it sounds like he opened the door with the gun, set the gun down and came outside, then eventually opened the door and went back in. If they opened the door to get the pistol, you'd bitch they illegally entered the house.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
I am a little curious about the timing in the Maryland matter, though. 5:15am is fifteen minutes before civil twilight (on November 5th), to say nothing of actual sunrise. That's darn dark, and likely to be catching people at a time that could be disorienting. Seems to me that it ramps up the chances for misunderstandings.
I confess I've never heard of civil twilight, but I agree it was likely pretty dark.
There are advantages and disadvantages to serving papers at such an early hour. Down sides are that the subject may be awakened by the knock and disoriented. Up side is that the subject may be disoriented and awakened by the knock. I agree it would be stressful to have the police door knocking at 0515. That said, it sounds like the guy was awake and lucid, but decided he wasn't going to surrender his gun. Absent more details, I don't know.
I don't know how things are done in Anne Arundel, but in my former AO, the sheriff's office served protection orders when they were received. I would assume red flag orders are served the same way. If someone is at the commissioner's office seeking a protection order in the middle of the night, the thinking is that this needs to be served sooner rather than later.
While a civil order is not a search warrant, commonalities exist. At o-dark-shirty, the subject is probably home, he's more likely sober or hung over rather than intoxicated, and he probably doesn't have ten of his best buddies pounding shots with him.
Who originally reported this guy to the police and why? What behaviors occurred that made other people (and a judge) think this guy presented a threat?
Until we know the answers to those questions it’s hard to evaluate the actions in that incident.
Not really. If the judge signed the order, then it gets served, regardless of what’s in it and whether or not the complaint accurately reflected the events leading up to the plaintiff seeking the order. That’s why the granting of every ex-parte order I’m familiar with is followed by a court hearing shortly thereafter in which the defendant has a chance to argue their side.
The defendant in this case could have complied, handed his guns over to someone initially, gotten an attorney and attended his court hearing to get his guns back. That’s what a reasonable person would do. It sounds like this guy tried to get a pistol in his hand to likely harm the officers and he got shot. Based on my understanding of the events from when the officers tried to serve the order, their actions are well within the standards set by the Supreme Court in Graham v. Connor.
My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.
