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Thread: How to Grip A DA Revolver

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jetfire View Post
    Attachment 40820

    Here’s how I grip it wrong. The thumbs forward grip works very well for recoil control on anything up to a normal pressure .357 Magnum, provided the gun has adequate grip space to accommodate my support hand. The biggest advantage to this grip is that if you keep the gun in your dominant hand during reloads, it’s a little bit faster to hit the cylinder release button with my thumb in the forward position than it is if my thumb is locked down.

    Now, here’s the important part. I’m not dogmatic about which is better, thumbs locked or thumbs forward. I certainly don’t use a thumbs forward grip if I’m shooting a .44 Magnum. For example, thumbs forward works great on a GP100 Match Champion with those big stocks. It doesn’t work great on an old Model 10 with tiny little grips.

    Anyway, take this for what it’s worth. I’m not particularly good at shooting wheelguns, I only finished in the top 5 at IDPA Nationals like 5 times and never better than 2nd.
    Here is my issue with all of that. I don’t care about shooting them in a sport. I have my mantra of Combat Mindset,Marksmanship and Gun Handling/Tactics. That is totally different from Match Mindset, Marksmanship and Gun Handling/Tactics. The problem comes in when folks want to run the Match stuff in a combatives environment and vice versa. I have seen way to many cases of cylinders locked by thumbs and fingers, gloves, trash grips either because of a crap draw or post reload....especially when that reload is done from a asymmetric position in darkness. All sorts of fingers and body parts causing all sorts of issues. Then we have the crap blowing out the side never being an issue on the range right up to the stress stuff and duty Ammo and bleeding happens. After all the shootings I investigated and all the research I have done the one thing that rears it’s big fat Murphy head all the time is crap grip. With the revolver a thumbs forward crap grip, or fingers in the way of the trigger causes some serious issues.

    So, if it comes down to the priority being to win shooting sports, do what wins shooting sports. Keep in mind that I was a shooting sports guy especially during my revolver as a primary carry gun days. I figured out that what I did to win trophies was not always conducive to winning two way fights in chaos with Murphy as a judge and with a significant say in the final standings. I am not dogmatic at all in sport shooting events because it is where a ton of experimentation takes place and it is a great place to make progress. The issue comes in that we find some things do not translate to uncontrolled environments. Another factor is you may be fighting with someone to keep possession of the thing. That has a tendency to put fingers into places they can cause issues.
    Last edited by Dagga Boy; 08-03-2019 at 10:39 PM.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagga Boy View Post
    Here is my issue with all of that. I don’t care about shooting them in a sport. I have my mantra of Combat Mindset,Marksmanship and Gun Handling/Tactics. That is totally different from Match Mindset, Marksmanship and Gun Handling/Tactics. The problem comes in when folks want to run the Match stuff in a combatives environment and vice versa. I have seen way to many cases of cylinders locked by thumbs and fingers, gloves, trash grips either because of a crap draw or post reload....especially when that reload is done from a asymmetric position in darkness. All sorts of fingers and body parts causing all sorts of issues. Then we have the crap blowing out the side never being an issue on the range right up to the stress stuff and duty Ammo and bleeding happens. After all the shootings I investigated and all the research I have done the one thing that rears it’s big fat Murphy head all the time is crap grip. With the revolver a thumbs forward crap grip, or fingers in the way of the trigger causes some serious issues.

    So, if it comes down to the priority being to win shooting sports, do what wins shooting sports. Keep in mind that I was a shooting sports guy especially during my revolver as a primary carry gun days. I figured out that what I did to win trophies was not always conducive to winning two way fights in chaos with Murphy as a judge and with a significant say in the final standings. I am not dogmatic at all in sport shooting events because it is where a ton of experimentation takes place and it is a great place to make progress. The issue comes in that we find some things do not translate to uncontrolled environments. Another factor is you may be fighting with someone to keep possession of the thing. That has a tendency to put fingers into places they can cause issues.
    I’ll be the first person to say that competition shooting and gunfights aren’t the same thing. I sure as hell don’t carry a 4 inch GP100 loaded with mousefarts in an offset OWB holster as a defensive revolver. Like I said, I use a thumbs forward grip because it gives me small performance gains in a specific context. I do use a thumbs forward grip on the 3 inch LCR that I carry as well. I’ll run it later next year in ECQC just to see how it performs under pressure.

  3. #13
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    What's with all these people (Caleb and Jerry, mainly) having short thumbs?

    These pics are from another thread awhile back. Me with my Match Champion and the Hogue no finger groove grip. It's basically the same side profile as the S&W X-frame grip, without finger grooves.

    Attachment 23127

    Attachment 23128

    (It would be cool if a tech-savvy mod could get the photos to actually appear here.)

    What I'm doing today compared to this photo: I'm bending my thumb down more, overlaying it with the support hand thumb like Darryl shows, and putting the tips of them on the side of the frame between the cylinder release hump and the top of the grip, to the rear of the cylinder. Everything out of the way of the cylinder and trigger finger all the way to the DA release. But I have to bend my thumbs a lot more, like the strong hand thumb 90 or further, to get them to both fit there.

    I've been messing with the grip geometry some more. Adding layers of gaffer tape to fill in the remaining dip at the top of the back strap (nearly straight from bottom to top and even longer reach to the trigger now - might backtrack a hair on that) and to thicken up the forward portion of the main part of the grip on the sides, so it's more oval in cross section instead of Hogue's tapered "wedge" shape. So far, so good. No idea how to implement these changes once I settle on exactly how I want it after testing. Maybe ship the whole mess to Herrett's?

    Darryl, I notice your metacarpophalangeal joint is well above the top of the back strap, but I can't tell whether the web of the thumb is at the top of the grip or wrapping over the top (hence the interference with the hammer comment). Can you provide more detail? Maybe a photo from another angle?

    The following is actually a question: I don't see the point of having the web above the top of the grip backstrap. Seems like it would be difficult for it to contribute to recoil control if it's not in solid contact with anything. Is there something I'm missing?

    Also, I'm not sure whether you're wrapping your whole hand around to the right a lot more than I am. On that little Colt, it seems that would suggest smaller hands, or at least shorter fingers, overall. I'm 6'4" and wear size 13 shoes (hand and foot size actually correlate quite strongly), so longer hands/fingers would seem likely.
    Last edited by OlongJohnson; 08-03-2019 at 11:38 PM.
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  4. #14
    Let me add these pictures for some context that there is no real right or wrong to this, only application issues. If you look at the hands in Jetfire’s picture there is a minute amount of room around the trigger and cylinder. If the goal is to drive hard on multiple targets at speed and to shave as much time as possible on the pit stop (reload), then this is efficient for those goals.
    If you look at my hands and see how much room there is around the trigger and cylinder, the goal is to keep the trigger moving front to back without interference and to keep the cylinder turning without anything hitting it. It is optimized for solving one unpredictable force use problem at a time that may involve shooting, physical contact, both or neither. The goals are different, the application is different. The consequences of failure are different. In context, losing a national match because of an inefficient transition or reload can be significant if my goal is to win that events and I have spent a ton of time, money and effort in that endeavor. I am not ridiculing that at all as it is significant for many and what they do. Failure in a use of force scenario also carries significant implications. This essentially comes down to best applications for what YOU are trying to achieve. I have done both. What is funny is that Jetfire and I have both concluded these things do not cross over well and are perfectly okay with that. The issue seems to be coming from those who do not have the background of watching thousands of folks pressure run revolvers to see what comes up as failures as a force tool. This is not an insult, it is a reality of time. Older folks had the exposure that many cannot get now and are working off of their own example of one with no real pressure testing. They can pressure test the sport side, but it simply does not translate like many people think it does.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Dagga Boy; 08-03-2019 at 11:41 PM.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  5. #15
    Olong, I ll get some pictures tomorrow. I have my hand as high as possible without being over the top of the frame.

    Also....why grip selection is so critical and a great revolver attribute is that you can actually tailor the grip to get your hand positioned optimally for your hand size and finger length. I have grips I like, but like sights they are very individual and what works for me may be terrible for someone else.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  6. #16
    I had an epiphany that may help explain this. Most shooting sports depend on perfect plan execution. You know that a beep will occur, at that beep certain things will happen in a specified order and there is going to be a very predictable interaction between the shooter and the gun. The shooter needs to then apply a very succinct plan to their physical actions and their contact with the gun. Those who win do so through absolute perfect consistency and sticking directly to the plan.

    Force application is the absolute polar opposite. Any plan you have will likely never materialize. There is zero consistency and replication is almost impossible. Adaptation in chaos is what wins. “If it can go wrong” is likely what the plan is. You end up having to focus on some very simple fundamentals, and how to adapt them in a wholly unpredictable and ever changing environment with a branching set of problems. When some of us bring up stuff like “you need to leave a bunch of room so a glove or thumb doesn’t bind the cylinder” is because....it is a foreseeable variable. A glove getting stuck in a cylinder will never be a variable for someone who will not ever be using a glove in competition so it is an irrelevant concern. Having someone grab the gun and pinning your thumb in the cylinder flutes is never going to happen in a match. It is a very distinct possibility during an entangled fight. How we factor variables is where the disconnect comes in. Things you will never see on a range happen regularly when in a street shooting. It is why I like to build lots of room for those variables.
    Last edited by Dagga Boy; 08-04-2019 at 12:18 AM.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  7. #17
    Member Hi-Point Aficionado's Avatar
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    With revolvers, I plant the pad of my support hand thumb on the distal knuckle, just above the fingernail, of my storng hand thumb. Leaves the tip of my trigger finger more clearance. If I parked it on the thumbnail, I'd bump into it with the tip of my trigger finger before even reachin the break. But that's just the way I fit my guns with the stocks I have installed.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Point Aficionado View Post
    With revolvers, I plant the pad of my support hand thumb on the distal knuckle, just above the fingernail, of my storng hand thumb. Leaves the tip of my trigger finger more clearance. If I parked it on the thumbnail, I'd bump into it with the tip of my trigger finger before even reachin the break. But that's just the way I fit my guns with the stocks I have installed.
    Which is all fine. The key is ensuring that nothing is remotely close to hindering the trigger movement in a smooth stroke or the cylinder turning.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  9. #19
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Bottom line for me is that this "thumb lock" technique is simple, repeatable, easy to ingrain and for my purposes, (defensive / combat shooting), something that does not require changing from scenario to scenario. It simply works. (Others may find different techniques work better for them.)

    That said, other than personally competing (in years past) against other agents for speed and viable hits at academies or qualifications, (DB and I have discussed this in the past during a phone call), nowadays I have no interest in competition outside of the crucible of concealed carry and self-defense.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  10. #20
    Member jtcarm's Avatar
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    My grip's pretty much the same as DB's, except my fingers are a lot shorter.

    The double-straight thumb does work well in IDPA for weak hand reloads (gun kept in right hand.) For me, presentation from the leather is also a bit quicker.

    While having my thumb directly behind the cylinder release makes for faster reloads, I realized in extreme duress it would be easy to accidentally punch the release.

    That's on S&Ws, I can see where it would be less of any issue on a Ruger.

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