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Thread: Active Shooter at El Paso Walmart

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post

    Second, if one of the terrorists that flew a plane into the twin towers on 9/11 miraculously survived, and been arrested, would he be in Federal jail or accused of local murder? I guess I’m wondering if these extremist assholes who commit violent political terrorism are handled at the Federal level (FBI?), or is it always a local matter handled by the local .leo authority? (Please bear in mind I am just a random .civ guy and have no idea how all this works. I’ve only ever gotten a parking ticket.)
    It depends. In you 9/11 scenario the suspect would be a member of or acting I. Support a designated foreign terrorist organization (FTO) so federal prosecution would be likely.

    While the DOJ has a definition of domestic terrorism, there is no domestic terrorism statute. Domestic terrorism incidents are charged federally via other crimes such as use of a weapon of mass destruction etc. some examples of federal death penalty statues include:

    https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/stories...-death-penalty

    8. U.S.C. § 1342(B)(iv) Bringing in and harboring certain aliens resulting in death.
    18 U.S.C. §§ 32-34 Destruction of aircraft, motor vehicles, or related facilities resulting in death.
    18 U.S.C. § 36 Murder committed during a drug-related drive-by shooting.
    18 U.S.C. § 37 Murder committed at an airport serving international civil aviation.
    18 U.S.C. § 115(b)(3)
    [by cross-reference
    to 18 U.S.C. § 1111] Retaliatory murder of a member of the immediate family of law enforcement officials.
    18 U.S.C. §§ 241,
    242, 245, 247 Civil rights offenses resulting in death.
    18 U.S.C. § 351
    [by cross-reference
    to 18 U.S.C. § 1111] Murder of a member of Congress, an important executive official, or a Supreme Court Justice.
    18 U.S.C. § 794 Espionage.
    18 U.S.C. § 844(d), (f), (i) Death resulting from offenses involving transportation of explosives, destruction of government property, or destruction of property related to foreign or interstate commerce.
    18 U.S.C. § 924(i) Murder committed by the use of a firearm during a crime of violence or a drug-trafficking crime.
    18 U.S.C. § 930 Murder committed in a Federal Government facility.
    18 U.S.C. § 1091 Genocide.
    18 U.S.C. § 1111 First-degree murder.
    18 U.S.C. § 1114 Murder of a Federal judge or Federal law enforcement official.
    18 U.S.C. § 1116 Murder of a foreign official.
    18 U.S.C. § 1118 Murder by a Federal prisoner.
    18 U.S.C. § 1119 Murder of a U.S. national in a foreign country.
    18 U.S.C. § 1120 Murder by an escaped Federal prisoner already sentenced to life imprisonment.
    18 U.S.C. § 1121 Murder of a State or local law enforcement official or other person aiding in a Federal investigation; murder of a State correctional officer.
    18 U.S.C. § 1201 Murder during a kidnapping.
    18 U.S.C. § 1203 Murder during a hostage taking.
    18 U.S.C. § 1503 Murder of a court officer or juror.
    18 U.S.C. § 1512 Murder with the intent of preventing testimony by a witness, victim, or informant.
    18 U.S.C. § 1513 Retaliatory murder of a witness, victim, or informant.
    18 U.S.C. § 1716 Mailing of injurious articles with intent to kill or resulting in death.
    18 U.S.C. § 1751
    [by cross-reference
    to 18 U.S.C. § 1111] Assassination or kidnapping resulting in the death of the President or Vice President.
    18 U.S.C. § 1958 Murder for hire.
    18 U.S.C. § 1959 Murder involved in a racketeering offense.
    18 U.S.C. § 1992 Willful wrecking of a train resulting in death.
    18 U.S.C. § 2113 Bank-robbery-related murder or kidnapping.
    18 U.S.C. § 2119 Murder related to a carjacking.
    18 U.S.C. § 2245 Death resulting from aggravated sexual abuse, sexual abuse of a minor or ward, or abusive sexual conduct.
    18 U.S.C. § 2251 Murder related to sexual exploitation of children.
    18 U.S.C. § 2280 Murder committed during an offense against maritime navigation.
    18 U.S.C. § 2281 Murder committed during an offense against a maritime fixed platform.
    18 U.S.C. § 2332 Terrorist murder of a U.S. national in another country.
    18 U.S.C. § 2332a Use of a weapon of mass destruction resulting in death.
    18 U.S.C. § 2332b Crimes against persons in the United States resulting in death, committed by a person engaged in conduct transcending national boundaries.
    18 U.S.C. § 2340, 2340(A) Murder involving torture.
    18 U.S.C. § 2381 Treason.
    21 U.S.C. § 848(e) Murder related to a continuing criminal enterprise or drug trafficking offense, or drug-related murder of a Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.
    49 U.S.C. §§ 46052 Death resulting from aircraft piracy.

    Although not listed by BJS, the following offenses are also punishable by death under the federal statute, though it is not clear that the death penalty would be constitutional for these offenses under Kennedy v. Louisiana (2008) since they do not require a murder:
    Trafficking in large quantities of drugs (18 U.S.C. § 3591(b))
    Attempting, authorizing or advising the killing of any officer, juror,or witness in cases involving a Continuing Criminal Enterprise, regardless of whether such killing actually occurs. (18 U.S.C. § 3591(b)(2))).
    In addition to the obvious - 18 U.S.C. § 924(i) Murder committed by the use of a firearm during a crime of violence or a drug-trafficking crime. one could argue that murder committed for political purposes as in the El Paso shooting could constitute civil rights violations under 18 U.S.C. §§ 241,242, 245, 247 Civil rights offenses resulting in death.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    I have two questions, maybe someone here will know:

    The El Paso shooting took place in the WalMart and parking lot, correct? Is this El Paso WalMart a ‘gun free zone’ in Texas? Would the extremist asshole have picked this location for this reason, similar to why schools might be selected by other extremist assholes?
    In general, WalMarts out here are not gun free zones.
    Last edited by fixer; 08-06-2019 at 06:05 AM.

  3. #183
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
    It will be difficult to avoid an expanding set of weapons and mag bans across the country along with NICS for private sales.
    I think Wyoming is safe, but states with a lot of urban population aren't.

    Here in Florida, there was a ballot issue in the works before these shootings. The only thing holding it up now is that the language is being reviewed by the FL Supreme Court. If it clears that that in some form, it will be on the ballot, which means it's a done deal.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

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  4. #184
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    I have two questions, maybe someone here will know:

    The El Paso shooting took place in the WalMart and parking lot, correct? Is this El Paso WalMart a ‘gun free zone’ in Texas? Would the extremist asshole have picked this location for this reason, similar to why schools might be selected by other extremist assholes?
    Not "gun free", just posted to prohibit open carry.
    This entire shopping area is very popular with upper class day shoppers from Mexico and open carry by non-LE would make the majority of them very nervous.
    In Mexico if you have a gun displayed you're either a cop or a criminal and both of those are to be avoided if at all possible.

    The choice of location makes some sense, but is also extremely odd.
    If you wanted to shoot illegals... this isn't the place. I bet 99% of the Mexicans shoppers there were in the US legally that day. Head on down by the bus station (or further south and east on I-10) and it's a different story.
    Also, why drive to El Paso from Dallas (where the shooter lived) to target illegal Mexicans? There are much, much larger targets in Dallas that have a much higher percentage of illegals (like 50,000 square foot Mexican dance clubs with thousands of patrons on a weekend).

    Something or someone other than a desire to shoot Mexicans at this particular Wal-Mart brought him to El Paso.
    There will be a co-conspirator in this, I guarantee.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
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  5. #185
    Site Supporter Trukinjp13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    Not "gun free", just posted to prohibit open carry.
    This entire shopping area is very popular with upper class day shoppers from Mexico and open carry by non-LE would make the majority of them very nervous.
    In Mexico if you have a gun displayed you're either a cop or a criminal and both of those are to be avoided if at all possible.

    The choice of location makes some sense, but is also extremely odd.
    If you wanted to shoot illegals... this isn't the place. I bet 99% of the Mexicans shoppers there were in the US legally that day. Head on down by the bus station (or further south and east on I-10) and it's a different story.
    Also, why drive to El Paso from Dallas (where the shooter lived) to target illegal Mexicans? There are much, much larger targets in Dallas that have a much higher percentage of illegals (like 50,000 square foot Mexican dance clubs with thousands of patrons on a weekend).

    Something or someone other than a desire to shoot Mexicans at this particular Wal-Mart brought him to El Paso.
    There will be a co-conspirator in this, I guarantee.
    I am in complete agreement. I really do not see the purpose of where he chose this attack. Maybe he just knew there would be a high population of people in a small area and most of which would be from Mexico, which would not be carrying. Also do we know how many actual Mexicans vs Americans were killed?


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  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Trukinjp13 View Post
    I am in complete agreement. I really do not see the purpose of where he chose this attack. Maybe he just knew there would be a high population of people in a small area and most of which would be from Mexico, which would not be carrying. Also do we know how many actual Mexicans vs Americans were killed?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    According to latest reports, the number of Mexicans killed in the El Paso incident stands at 8 with the balance of the victims at 14 for a total of 22 dead. Of course, this is presuming that no other victims die during treatment/ recovery at their respective hospitals.
    ''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein

    Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    Not "gun free", just posted to prohibit open carry.
    This entire shopping area is very popular with upper class day shoppers from Mexico and open carry by non-LE would make the majority of them very nervous.
    In Mexico if you have a gun displayed you're either a cop or a criminal and both of those are to be avoided if at all possible.

    The choice of location makes some sense, but is also extremely odd.
    If you wanted to shoot illegals... this isn't the place. I bet 99% of the Mexicans shoppers there were in the US legally that day. Head on down by the bus station (or further south and east on I-10) and it's a different story.
    Also, why drive to El Paso from Dallas (where the shooter lived) to target illegal Mexicans? There are much, much larger targets in Dallas that have a much higher percentage of illegals (like 50,000 square foot Mexican dance clubs with thousands of patrons on a weekend).

    Something or someone other than a desire to shoot Mexicans at this particular Wal-Mart brought him to El Paso.
    There will be a co-conspirator in this, I guarantee.
    Those dance clubs hire off duty cops for security. A Walmart is a softer target.

    It seems the targeted Walmart primarily serves Ft Bliss soldiers and day trip shoppers from Mexico, both groups unlikely to be armed.

  8. #188
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    I have two questions, maybe someone here will know:

    The El Paso shooting took place in the WalMart and parking lot, correct? Is this El Paso WalMart a ‘gun free zone’ in Texas? Would the extremist asshole have picked this location for this reason, similar to why schools might be selected by other extremist assholes?

    Second, if one of the terrorists that flew a plane into the twin towers on 9/11 miraculously survived, and been arrested, would he be in Federal jail or accused of local murder? I guess I’m wondering if these extremist assholes who commit violent political terrorism are handled at the Federal level (FBI?), or is it always a local matter handled by the local .leo authority? (Please bear in mind I am just a random .civ guy and have no idea how all this works. I’ve only ever gotten a parking ticket.)
    Per this morning's news he picked the Walmart because he was hungry.

    No one in Texas is going to assume any place here is a gun free zone.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trukinjp13 View Post
    I really do not see the purpose of where he chose this attack.
    Possibly the symbolism of being so close to the border? Occam?
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

  10. #190
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zincwarrior View Post
    Per this morning's news he picked the Walmart because he was hungry.

    No one in Texas is going to assume any place here is a gun free zone.
    Westbound on I-10 I can see Cielo Vista being one of the first places someone from out of town might stop for chain restaurant options.
    I-10 through El Paso is a real pain in the ass to navigate on to and off of and there's not much that looks inviting east of Cielo Vista.

    Now... why El Paso?
    That's a long ass drive just to shoot up a place you randomly picked because you were hungry.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

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