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Thread: TX LEO shoots, kills woman while aiming for loose dog

  1. #21
    LE Forum Moderator BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    We were told in training that a dousing is less effective because the burning is intensified as the carrier evaporates. More spray, less evaporation. Feel free to correct me if that's not the case.
    L'otters are not afraid.
    WWOMJD?

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  2. #22
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    We were told in training that a dousing is less effective because the burning is intensified as the carrier evaporates. More spray, less evaporation. Feel free to correct me if that's not the case.
    I remember that being the spiel as well.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    We were told in training that a dousing is less effective because the burning is intensified as the carrier evaporates. More spray, less evaporation. Feel free to correct me if that's not the case.
    Thatís what we were taught as well.

  4. #24

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC215 View Post
    Thatís what we were taught as well.
    AS an example to the contrary, I point to the MkIX stream projector. It puts a significantly larger payload and amount of OC in the target area and is, in my experience, much more effective than belt-carried MkIII and IV canisters. More is better.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by paherne View Post
    OC does not wash OC off. FWIW, I'm a chemical agents instructor and I've hosed a number of dogs down in my time. Never shot one. While short, aimed bursts that hit the target eyes/nose area are usually more effective than just hosing continuously, the idea that OC can wash off OC is contrary to my experience spraying dogs and parolees.
    Itís not going to wash off completely but with stream OC youíre not getting anymore practical effector of a whole can than you are out of a shirt Burst. Re the mailman scenario OC also has a slight lag in effect.

    The mist OC worked well on the dog.

    You will not be surprised to hear the Alameda DA declined to charge the guy who siccíed the dog on us.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ldunnmobile View Post
    Sigh...

    I have zero desire to shoot a dog. Less than zero.

    Im not going to monday morning quarter back that guy but I will say that LEO live fire training needs more moving target and three dimensional training. The FATS (or however you spell that) trainers are useless in my mind although I will admit I have limited experience.

    Only recently have we begun training "no shoots" so to speak with multiple layers or depth to the target design.

    Feel free to chime in as my experience is limited to well, me. Id like to hear what other departments are teaching.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    We were told in training that a dousing is less effective because the burning is intensified as the carrier evaporates. More spray, less evaporation. Feel free to correct me if that's not the case.
    As I recall that also the reason for the slight lag in OC taking effect.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsz View Post
    Sigh...

    I have zero desire to shoot a dog. Less than zero.

    Im not going to monday morning quarter back that guy but I will say that LEO live fire training needs more moving target and three dimensional training. The FATS (or however you spell that) trainers are useless in my mind although I will admit I have limited experience.

    Only recently have we begun training "no shoots" so to speak with multiple layers or depth to the target design.

    Feel free to chime in as my experience is limited to well, me. Id like to hear what other departments are teaching.
    This is a big hole in most departments training programs, including our own. We talk about being aware of your target, what's beyond it, and in front of it....but training virtually never addresses this for most LEO's. This was one of the primary issues I identified and included in an In Service Critical Handgun Skills course i wrote 7-8 months ago. The powers that be decided to go with "more CIT" as the answer instead. I was gonna include the lessons in our pre-qualification training block, but my staff convinced me we didn't have the time. I think maybe i dont give a rat's ass how much time it takes, and I'm just gonna do it. Screw the complaints.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Itís not going to wash off completely but with stream OC youíre not getting anymore practical effector of a whole can than you are out of a shirt Burst. Re the mailman scenario OC also has a slight lag in effect.

    The mist OC worked well on the dog.

    You will not be surprised to hear the Alameda DA declined to charge the guy who siccíed the dog on us.
    You were the PO-LICE, so obviously, you signed up for that, right? John Burris' first job was as a deputy DA in Alameda County. Maybe people wouldn't resist, nor injure cops if there were consequences for doing so. Nah, crazy talk!

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