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Thread: US Secret Service Adopts Glock 19 MOS Gen 5 in 9mm

  1. #91
    Site Supporter Clark Jackson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckshot View Post
    The only SS agent I know rode with Kennedy & Johnson!
    Ooof. This is why the USSS refer to themselves as "the Service" or "USSS."
    "True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost." -Arthur Ashe

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Jackson View Post
    How much is a gun NOT going off when you drop it worth? I'd say $75 million +.
    My agency has a VERY liberal approved-pistol policy. Including 1911's, if approved by me. Guess what isn't approved: SIG 320's. SIGs, even the classic ones, have had a fatal flaw that Berettas, 3rd Gen Smiths, and even Ruger P Series don't have: if you use the trigger to lower the hammer, you deactivate all the firing pin safeties until the slide is racked. A California cop had his classic Sig fall out of his holster as he was carrying his duty rig over his shoulder as he walked in to the station. The pistol had not been decocked using the de-cocking lever and fell upon the hammer and discharged, striking the officer and killing him. I could not get guys trained on revolvers to trust the safety/decock lever on our issued B92s, I imagine it was the same way with old-timers issued a SIG. The 320/M17 issue is just as troubling.
    Last edited by paherne; 08-03-2019 at 09:40 PM.

  3. #93
    Site Supporter Clark Jackson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paherne View Post
    My agency has a VERY liberal approved-pistol policy. Including 1911's, if approved by me. Guess what isn't approved: SIG 320's. SIGs, even the classic ones, have had a fatal flaw that Berettas, 3rd Gen Smiths, and even Ruger P Series don't have: if you use the trigger to lower the hammer, you deactivate all the firing pin safeties until the slide is racked. A California cop had his classic Sig fall out of his holster as he was carrying his duty rig over his shoulder as he walked in to the station. The pistol had not been decocked using the de-cocking lever and fell upon the hammer and discharged, striking the officer and killing him. I could not get guys trained on revolvers to trust the safety/decock lever on our issued B92s, I imagine it was the same way with old-timers issued a SIG. The 320/M17 issue is just as troubling.
    You, sir, are my new favorite person on PF.
    "True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost." -Arthur Ashe

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by paherne View Post
    My agency has a VERY liberal approved-pistol policy. Including 1911's, if approved by me. Guess what isn't approved: SIG 320's. SIGs, even the classic ones, have had a fatal flaw that Berettas, 3rd Gen Smiths, and even Ruger P Series don't have: if you use the trigger to lower the hammer, you deactivate all the firing pin safeties until the slide is racked. A California cop had his classic Sig fall out of his holster as he was carrying his duty rig over his shoulder as he walked in to the station. The pistol had not been decocked using the de-cocking lever and fell upon the hammer and discharged, striking the officer and killing him. I could not get guys trained on revolvers to trust the safety/decock lever on our issued B92s, I imagine it was the same way with old-timers issued a SIG. The 320/M17 issue is just as troubling.

    Institutional ignorance in it's purest form, been dealing with it almost 34 years now, expect it will continue until all the old guard are rotated out, but then it always depends on how well they've indoctrinated their successors. I should add that I first began carrying a german made P226 as a duty pistol in 1989.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by paherne View Post
    My agency has a VERY liberal approved-pistol policy. Including 1911's, if approved by me. Guess what isn't approved: SIG 320's. SIGs, even the classic ones, have had a fatal flaw that Berettas, 3rd Gen Smiths, and even Ruger P Series don't have: if you use the trigger to lower the hammer, you deactivate all the firing pin safeties until the slide is racked. A California cop had his classic Sig fall out of his holster as he was carrying his duty rig over his shoulder as he walked in to the station. The pistol had not been decocked using the de-cocking lever and fell upon the hammer and discharged, striking the officer and killing him. I could not get guys trained on revolvers to trust the safety/decock lever on our issued B92s, I imagine it was the same way with old-timers issued a SIG. The 320/M17 issue is just as troubling.
    Hate SIG the company for the way they handled the P320 drop gate fiasco but please do not spread misinformation. The current P320s, which are now the same internally as M17/18s are drop safe.

    As for the other, why would you not use the decocking lever on a P- series gun ? That is an operator error / training issue.

    This is the CA case : http://www.odmp.org/officer/16325-of...enneth-paderez

    In that case, was that the thumb snap on a new holster would not engage with the hammer captured in the safety intercept notch. The officer decocked using the trigger and kept the hammer pushed forward while engaging the thumb snap. These actions left the hammer resting directly against the firing pin without the firing pin lock engaged. When the gun was dropped and landed on its hammer, it discharged.

    If you lower the hammer using the decocker, a properly functioning P series gun is drop safe.
    Last edited by HCM; 08-03-2019 at 11:08 PM.

  6. #96
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    I understand that officers often do stupid stuff with firearms, but I think a proper training program could train officers not to decock by pulling the trigger. Did we ever decock revolvers so often that the idea could not be trained out of even those who carried wheel guns back in the day?

    I'm inclined to believe that SigSauer has corrected the drop-safe issue on the 320. That said, I understand and share the suspicion about the company and everything it does. Thatcomes from a former fanboy who wrote the proposal for my former agency to transition from the Ruger Service Six to the SigSauer P226.

  7. #97
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    I've seen plenty people trained better refuse to use a decocker. Because they don't trust a mechanical device to do a better job than them. Nothing like watching a b92 decocked by hand and then the safety applied.

    The more I watch non gun people using pistols the more I think k ghose pistols shouldn't have safeties or decockers or anything similar.
    Welcome to Africa, bring a hardhat.

  8. #98
    Not only all this about improper use, but Sig revised the classic series after said CA incident so if Joey Bagadonuts does manually decock the hammer, it subsequently retracts to the safety intercept position under spring power after the trigger is released. The only way to keep the hammer on the firing pin after releasing the trigger is to continuously maintain pressure on the back of the hammer.

    As to the P320 issues- Sig deserves whatever they get for the manner in which they handled the problem. With that said, all evidence at this point seems to indicate it is resolved by the recall/ “voluntary upgrade.”
    Anything I post is my opinion alone as a private citizen.

  9. #99
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    There is a surprising amount of misinformation still floating around regarding the XM17/MHS trials (and tribulations)...
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  10. #100
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    There is a surprising amount of misinformation still floating around regarding the XM17/MHS trials (and tribulations)...
    What do you think the odds are of SOCOM units switching over to the M18? They must have taken a look at the M17/18.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

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