Was thinking that...Originally Posted by HCM
We did aircraft countermeasures with FAMS, and were talking about how much they shoot. From 2008, the instructor was on his sixth SIG... due to round count. When he was asking about our guns, we mentioned the move to Glocks. Was surprised, but felt it was the best move.
You’ll see a lot less waste going 9mm in roles like that.
Super far ahead of the curve. So far ahead they can't use holsters without active retention even if it's concealed.
@Screwball @HCM And the FAMS? C'mon. I've seen a few of them shoot at matches. Not as impressive as the legends. Plus, I've heard the excess of USSS management in their formation is why they've got sweet custom SiGs without dust covers, because you know, WMLs = bad.
@runcible EDIT: railed dust covers
my bad.
Last edited by Clark Jackson; 08-03-2019 at 09:57 AM.
"True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost." -Arthur Ashe
Did not touch on anything regarding capabilities... both of the FAMs I spoke to have similar round counts per year. Had a year or two differences in length of time there, but respectful number of pistols shot out. Very different than an agency that qualifies twice/four times a year...
In short, life of .357 SIG guns is not as long as 9mm. Likely the reason for USSS change, and I likely think any other agency using the same round will likely switch.
Wait, there's just a gap forward of the trigger guard??? The guide-rod and spring being fully exposed sounds super sketch. What's the reasoning behind that? (It seems like it'd cost more that way.)
Jules
Runcible Works
Nobody likes a smart ass. Hahaha! Good catch. I amended my post.
"True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost." -Arthur Ashe
Ohhhhh, so they run OG P229s, not the newer P229Rs?
Jules
Runcible Works
I know you didn't touch on capabilities - I didn't mean to imply you were - and I agree the life of .357 SiG guns is probably shorter than 9mm especially if you're not shooting 9mm +P in any real volume. I brought up the topic of capabilites because taking the discussion in that direction made sense to me.
I often hear people lionize the FAMs for their quantity of shooting which tends to bleed into the assumed quality of their shooting.
I'm sure there are some really good shooters in the FAMs and even the not so good ones are probably better than those who only shoot once or twice a year. That being said, I don't think the legends of surgical shooting FAMs are - at least today - entirely accurate.
Last edited by Clark Jackson; 08-03-2019 at 10:15 AM.
"True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost." -Arthur Ashe
I’m thinking it’s the floor plates.
And yet here you are...
Guns are consumables. The cost of the ammo and man hours it took to go through 6 guns far exceeds the cost of the guns.
Example: the GOV paid between $300 and $350 for your P2000. With a service life of 10k rounds that is $2k in ammo.
For an average DHS LEO, they shoot about 1,000 rounds a year so that is a 10 year service life. They get a minimum of 8 hours of use of force training per quarter. At $36 per hour, an 8 hour day is $288. The 40, 8 hour training days in the service life of your HK will cost approximately $11, 520.
As Thulsa Doom said in Conan the Barbarian:
One thing the FAMS do, or at least were still doing as of a few years ago, is keep round counts on guns and do regular preventative maintenance based on the round count. Most agencies guess at round counts and swap guns every 10k.
Last edited by HCM; 08-03-2019 at 12:12 PM.
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