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Thread: The 40cal on its way out?

  1. #1
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    The 40cal on its way out?

    First off I carry a HK P30S in 9mm and have used /carried the S&W M5906 and M6906 back in the 90`s
    But unlike most of you guys I truly think the 40S&W is a Better LE load than the 9mm +P 124gr and standard pressure 147

    I keep reading on forums why the 40S&W is fading away!

    Here are some of the things I hear others say.



    9mm = less wear ? Okay a lot of loads on the Docs list are +p rated and that cause extra wear and some pistol like my P30S aren't even rated for +P use(although I use +P loads under 1200 fps)
    The 40S&W doesn't need to be driven at a higher pressure. Therefore no extra wear or tear.

    40S&W pistol are built to 9mm specs therefore wear out faster ?? What current LE service pistol is built to 9mm specs in 40S&W? Even my retired 1998 P229 doesn't have this so called problem.

    9mm = less recoil faster follow up. The 40 cal can be loaded to any pressure or velocity the agency may want! JHP Bullets from 135gr to 200gr.
    What does Chuck say about recoil? Sorry Chuck I know you like 9mm over the 40S&W

    9mm cost less. When I buy ammo from my dealer (50rd LE ammo) I don't see much if any difference and sometimes even see the 40S&W for less.
    I also see 40S&W LE loads instock most off the time unlike 9mm LE loads like 124+P and 147 HST . BTW he seems to always have 180gr HST instock


    I'm going to have to shoot a M&P40 and G22 to see what up with the excessive recoil.


    BTW my hands ache all the time now and I have broken my hand and every finger once or twice now. So I'm some what a recoil sensitive and I'm only 50yrs old.
    But still enjoy shooting my retired P229 in 40S&W

  2. #2
    I find it hard to believe that "it's on the way out." However, there is a trend in LE that points back to the 9mm. With that said, there will be several agencies that will stick with the .40 and with it's wide adoption, it isn't going anywhere. Everybody has their favorite caliber and around here, it's the 9mm - hands down. But that doesn't mean anything in regards to LE usage and the future of the fortay.

  3. #3
    Member ST911's Avatar
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    On it's way out? No.
    Declining demand? Yes.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skintop911 View Post
    On it's way out? No.
    Declining demand? Yes.

    This.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JBP55 View Post
    This.

    Exactly. The .40 is here to stay, but in the future it is going to less dominating in the police market, and perhaps quite a bit less in the civilian market.

    However, the P229 was built for the .40 and in my opinion handles it very well.

    I also think a side-by-side comparison of the M&P 40 and the G22 is a very good idea. To date when I have done that (with a Gen 4 G22) I have found no one who didn't notice less recoil in the M&P. I'm sure some will find that not to be the case, but for most people, I think, the M&P is a softer-shooting gun (the same holds true for 9 as well, I believe).

    In the end, I think the .40 is probably marginally more effective than the 9, but the 9 is the somewhat "better" round because it is easier to shoot, less likely to cause inexperienced shooters to flinch, and allows faster follow up shots. However, a .40 P229 is an excellent gun and if locally ammo is cheaper for it, I'd keep shooting that.

  6. #6
    In my extremely limited experience as a range safety guy (two full days), I will say that I've heard some variation of:

    - "They all fall to hardball"
    - "I won't carry anything that doesn't start with a 4"
    - "I carry a .40/.45 because of the stopping power"
    - "9mm is fine for practice, but I don't want to have to shoot them a dozen times"
    - "9mm will just piss them off. .40/.45 will put them in the dirt"

    at least twenty times.

    I wouldn't underestimate the pervasive terminal ballistics ignorance of the general public. 9mm may be returning to LE use (FBI and others who will follow), but many members of the general public still consider the .10" difference between 9mm and .45 holes to be something akin to the Grand Canyon.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    .40 is a good cartridge and does some things very well. But physics is a harsh mistress, as is materials science. In otherwise equivalent pistols, .40 S&W generally wears the guns out faster than 9 mm. Many large users of both calibers report up to four times the service life of the 9 mm variants compared to the .40 pistols. LE service pistols that started out as 9 mm designs, like the G22, G23, or Beretta 96, tend to not fare well when chambered in .40 S&W. If you believe agencies can order quality .40 S&W defensive loads at whatever velocity they desire, see if you can find some 180 gr HST with an ave MV of 850 fps from a 4" barrel. FWIW, I just got in some new practice ammo today; I can assure you that 9 mm is indeed less expensive than .40...

    Last edited by DocGKR; 03-14-2015 at 03:54 AM.
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

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    What is the pressure rating on these loads ? ranger 127gr T +P+ , Gold Dot 124gr +P and HST 124gr +P

    Are the pressure higher or lower or the same as the popular 40S&W 180gr loads.

    I have a hard to believing that the LE 40 wear out faster. Now if the 9mm are using only standard pressure 115 and 124 gr /147 I could maybe see it.

    Maybe LE 9mm a couple of LE service pistol were built to 9mm specs long ago but that's not the case now. M&P 40 - Gen 3 or 4 G22 - 20year old P229 and P229R -HKUSP P2000 P30


    You know I went to look at Mikes offerings and the price does seem higher for 40cal HST 25.99 for the 155gr and 30.99 for my favorite 180gr load

    BTW 40CAL 180gr is instock and don't see any 124+P or 147gr HST in stock Not even the 124 standard pressure 124gr

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep View Post
    Exactly. The .40 is here to stay, but in the future it is going to less dominating in the police market, and perhaps quite a bit less in the civilian market.

    However, the P229 was built for the .40 and in my opinion handles it very well.

    I also think a side-by-side comparison of the M&P 40 and the G22 is a very good idea. To date when I have done that (with a Gen 4 G22) I have found no one who didn't notice less recoil in the M&P. I'm sure some will find that not to be the case, but for most people, I think, the M&P is a softer-shooting gun (the same holds true for 9 as well, I believe).

    In the end, I think the .40 is probably marginally more effective than the 9, but the 9 is the somewhat "better" round because it is easier to shoot, less likely to cause inexperienced shooters to flinch, and allows faster follow up shots. However, a .40 P229 is an excellent gun and if locally ammo is cheaper for it, I'd keep shooting that.
    Fully admit buying a G23 40cal 1998 and not liking it.(recoil) also after shooting just 500rds traded in 96 for my current P229. (I do have love for the M9 series with rail)

    I also doubt I would like a P30 in 40cal. but that just guessing


    Easier to shoot. Depends on the pistol for me

    Depending on the load used . I think my P229 can have less impulse than my P30S 9mm

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post

    I have a hard to believing that the LE 40 wear out faster.
    The only thing to say is, You're wrong.

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