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Thread: Pistol vs Rifle Safety Manipulation

  1. #1

    Pistol vs Rifle Safety Manipulation

    Did a search, didn’t find anything:

    By now, I think we’re all generally on the same page when it comes to the AR, that your safety stays engaged until you’re shouting, then once you’re done, it comes back on. Most domestic LE rifle programs use this philosophy, most all civilian tactical training I’ve seen use this philosophy, my understanding (never been military) is that outside of certain parts of NSW most military units run safety on all the time.

    Personally, whether I’m on a barricade, or clearing a building, my rifle is on safe until I’m snapping it up and moving my finger to the trigger to start pressing. With a rifle, it’s an easy thing to put on the clock and see that there is no time penalty. With 4 points of contact, how delicately or violently my firing hand throws the safety then mashes on the trigger plays very little role into shot placement when we’re talking about room distance, out to high risk stop etc. distance.

    Contrast this, it seems like there’s been a resurgence (or maybe some were just smart enough to never leave) of pistols with manual safeties. STI’s been killing it, so now the 2011 is cool amongst the tactical Instagram crowd, the 1911 goes up and down in being popular here, then we have guns like the M&P with a manual safety, some CZs, berettas, HKs etc.

    When I’m running my 1911, if I don’t pay attention to where my support hand meat of my thumb lands, if I deactivate the thumb safety with a full two handed grip, I pinch the crap out of it. Same issue with gloves. So under my current mindset, if my gun is pointed in a direction I anticipate a threat may appear but hasn’t appeared yet, or pointed at something that doesn’t need to be shot right now, my safety is engaged, thumb on top, and my support hand is just a smidgeon loose/the gun is sucked in a little to give me room to drop that safety, punch out that smidgeon while fully seating my grip. Time wise, I don’t think this is costing me much, but I could be very wrong in my mindset on still keeping my safety always on with my pistol as well.

    If I mash a 1911 safety and trigger like I can an AR, the shot goes to hell. If I’m delicate with the safety and trigger, my speed suffers.


    So, if we run our safeties on all the time with rifles because of all the reasons we’ve heard repeatedly, should we run our pistols equipped with a manual safety the same way? Why or why not?

    Thanks for feedback!

  2. #2
    Our SWAT team has been issued 1911’s for several years— we run the 1911 safety just like we run the rifle safety, which is the way you described.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by TC215 View Post
    Our SWAT team has been issued 1911’s for several years— we run the 1911 safety just like we run the rifle safety, which is the way you described.
    So taking scenarios out of the equation: if youre challenging someone through your sights, that isn’t a shoot yet target, safety is on, then if they present as a shoot target, safety comes off?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by BK14 View Post
    So taking scenarios out of the equation: if youre challenging someone through your sights, that isn’t a shoot yet target, safety is on, then if they present as a shoot target, safety comes off?
    I try not to have my gun pointed at anyone while I’m challenging them, if I can help it— though I have done it. Most bad guys aren’t afraid of having guns pointed at them anyway.

    If I’m on target, the safety is off. Off target, safety on.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TC215 View Post
    I try not to have my gun pointed at anyone while I’m challenging them, if I can help it— though I have done it. Most bad guys aren’t afraid of having guns pointed at them anyway.

    If I’m on target, the safety is off. Off target, safety on.
    Same, challenging may have been the wrong word to convey my intention. I don’t like the concept behind pointing guns at people that haven’t earned it most of the time.

    Thanks for the input.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    SA handguns, DAs carried SA, safety should be run like the rifle.

    I've been to several pistol training courses in the last year or two that required students with manual safeties on handguns to use them regardless of model or how intuitive the levers were. Justification varied. One taught it as a preventative measure in case the safety had been accidentally activated during carry or handling. That's not without merit, and has precedent in credible programs. Another trotted out the usual "if you have a safety and don't use it, you're going to get sued/convicted/killed/villified/etc." Yeah.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  7. #7
    I have been running cocked and locked H&Ks for my entire shooting history. My hard rule is to safe the pistol whenever I break my grip, i.e., my weak hand palm is no longer in maximal contact with the frame; this does mean that I will occasionally not safe the gun even when off target in square range conditions, as I may not have broken my grip. However, in practical scenarios, I don't see this being an issue, as there's generally no reason to not break the grip once off target. For long guns, my rule is to safe the moment I break cheekweld.

    These rules have confused me before, as I will try to safe a 1911 during a reload, or safe my CZ Evo during a malfunction where the hammer was dropped and then be unable to charge the gun. However, for my H&Ks and ARs, it has worked just fine (although it would be nice to be able to safe the AR even with the hammer dropped, à la HK416).
    Last edited by Default.mp3; 07-28-2019 at 10:29 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    SA handguns, DAs carried SA, safety should be run like the rifle.

    I've been to several pistol training courses in the last year or two that required students with manual safeties on handguns to use them regardless of model or how intuitive the levers were.

    Out of curiosity, were there components of drawing to a register/drawing to a non-threat then engaging from a ready position? If so, same mindset? Safety off until engaging?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    I have been running cocked and locked H&Ks for my entire shooting history. My hard rule is to safe the pistol whenever I break my grip, i.e., my weak hand palm is no longer in maximal contact with the frame; this does mean that I will occasionally not safe the gun even when off target in square range conditions, as I may not have broken my grip. However, in practical scenarios, I don't see this being an issue, as there's generally no reason to not break the grip once off target. For long guns, my rule is to safe the moment I break cheekweld.

    These rules have confused me before, as I will try to safe a 1911 during a reload, or safe my CZ Evo during a malfunction where the hammer was dropped and then be unable to charge the gun. However, for my H&Ks and ARs, it has worked just fine (although it would be nice to be able to safe the AR even with the hammer dropped, à la HK416).
    See, that’s where I’m running into some roadblocks..... I safe my rifle during reloads, and attempt to safe it during malfunctions. If I’m running a competition, 99% of the time I’m reloading while on the move from positions, and I’ll short stroke my brain sometimes trying to throw it on safe while my slides locked back, or I’ll try to safe while taking a step to get around a barrier to immediately start engaging again.

    I think that the “continuous engagement” of a match can have a different treatment than real world. If moving long distances/legitimately breaking from the gun I’ll safe.

    Does your usage mean that if you pointed a gun at a target that you didn’t have to shoot yet (whatever scenario, dude with a bat or knife however many yds away where they aren’t quite a shoot target yet, or an obstacle in the way) the safety would be off? Would that change if you weren’t running a trigger with a decent amount of travel?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by BK14 View Post
    See, that’s where I’m running into some roadblocks..... I safe my rifle during reloads, and attempt to safe it during malfunctions. If I’m running a competition, 99% of the time I’m reloading while on the move from positions, and I’ll short stroke my brain sometimes trying to throw it on safe while my slides locked back, or I’ll try to safe while taking a step to get around a barrier to immediately start engaging again.

    I think that the “continuous engagement” of a match can have a different treatment than real world. If moving long distances/legitimately breaking from the gun I’ll safe.

    Does your usage mean that if you pointed a gun at a target that you didn’t have to shoot yet (whatever scenario, dude with a bat or knife however many yds away where they aren’t quite a shoot target yet, or an obstacle in the way) the safety would be off? Would that change if you weren’t running a trigger with a decent amount of travel?
    I manipulate my gun during matches as I would during a tactical class and probably what I would do in a real life scenario. I don't think that safeing the gun is a big deal even if I'm just going from one port to the next on the same barricade on the pistol, and do it all the time during matches, there is no time lost compared to not safeing for my level of training and skill.

    Your scenario is unlikely to me, I think, since my plan of action revolves around drawing only if I am ready to shoot, since I am just a CCWer; however, if I do need to draw but don't quite have to shoot, it's no problem for me to do so if I make the conscious decision, even pushing to full extension (my safety comes off as I reach full extension, rather than at count 2 or 3 like some folks), it's more of putting the gun back on safe that will takes a bit more out of the situation, as I need to break my grip to safe the gun, so I will have to be in a position that I feel safe to break the grip.

    For me, I have almost zero experience with other handguns (I'm probably sitting at less than 150 rounds fired out of handguns not my own), so my manual-of-arms is extremely dedicated to my H&Ks.
    Last edited by Default.mp3; 07-28-2019 at 11:01 PM.

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