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Thread: Underwood 10mm Hard Cast in Clear Ballistics Gel

  1. #1
    Site Supporter 5pins's Avatar
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    Underwood 10mm Hard Cast in Clear Ballistics Gel



    Test Gun: Colt Delta Elite
    Barrel length: 5 inches.
    Ammunition: Underwood 200 and 220gr Hard Cast
    Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
    Distance: 10 feet.
    Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
    Five shot velocity average: 1191, 1139fps
    Gel Temperature 74 degrees

    This test has to be one of the biggest pain in the ass test I have ever done. This is the third and last in the Underwood woods loads. The 10mm is probably the most recommended woods carry round for semi-auto pistols and for good reason. The 10mm is a powerful round capable of sending heavy bullets at high velocity giving deep penetration. However, as we have seen in the past test with the .45, .40 and 9mm provide a very good alternative.

    With the 200gr loading, I got an average velocity of 1191fps with a high of 1200 and a low of 1183fps.


    Ten yards off hand five shots 200gr

    The 220gr round had a four-shot velocity (chorny problems) of 1139fps with a high of 1162fps and a low of 1108fps.


    Ten yards off hand five shots 220gr



    When shooting the 200gr load on paper at 10 yards I was having issues with the slide locking back with a loaded magazine. I decided to modify the slide lock to prevent this from happing. Once completing the modification, I had no more slide lock issues. I remember committing when I tested the Double Tap hard cast loading should not be necessary. However, if I wanted to shoot this type of ammo I guess it was necessary for my gun.



    I also had two failures to eject with both the 200 and 220gr loadings. I have never had this happen in this gun before but Iím not convinced it was an ammo issue.



    In the bare gel, the first found of the 200gr hard cast hit the gel at a velocity of 1189fps and 58.5 inches and had a recovered weight of 195.4 grains. The second round has a velocity of 1204fps and penetrated to 58 inches. The recovered weight of that bullet was 196.7 grains.



    I had many issues shooting through the sheet metal. I tried three rounds and all of them curved to the left and exited the about midway through the second block.

    I had similar issues with the 220gr bullets. Where the 200gr penetrated straight in the bare gel both of the 220gr bullets took a significant curve to the left also. Luckily I had shot both of them on the right side of the blocks or they wouldnít have been recovered either.

    The first shot in the bare gel had a velocity of 1146fps and penetrated to 60 inches. Recovered weight was 217.7 grains. The second roundís velocity was 1160fps and penetrated to 59.75 inches. Recovered weight was 216.6 grains.



    With the 220gr shot through the sheet metal, I had very similar problems as with the 200gr loading. Three rounds were shot and only one was recovered. The one recovered bulletís velocity was 1172fps and it penetrated to 25 inches. Recovered weight was 202.4 grains. The second round curved upward and exited the top of the block about midway through the second block. The last round curved to the left, just like the 200gr bullets, and exited about midway through the second block.


  2. #2
    Can you provide some thoughts as to why 10mm was so difficult to test and how that might translate to in terms of field gun performance?

    My experience is that hard cast 10mm loads have given me reliability problems in many different 10mm platforms.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter 5pins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Can you provide some thoughts as to why 10mm was so difficult to test and how that might translate to in terms of field gun performance?

    My experience is that hard cast 10mm loads have given me reliability problems in many different 10mm platforms.
    I'm not sure if the problems I had has any relevance in the real world other then the functioning problems. The only problems I have had with this gun has been with heavy hard cast bullets. The problem with the slide locking back early seems to have been fixed by modifying the slide stop. The two failure to eject was something new and I'm not sure it was caused by the ammo. That's enough in my option to disqualify this pistol until it can be assured that it's reliable.



    To be honest, the .45+P load did so will I would just carry it.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by 5pins View Post

    To be honest, the .45+P load did so will I would just carry it.
    Until somebody puts a 200 Grain WFN 10mm load on their desk and designs a pistol around it, the .45 +P or .45 Super will continue to be the answer to the semi-auto field pistol question.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream.

  5. #5
    Fornicates with shovels Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5pins View Post
    I'm not sure if the problems I had has any relevance in the real world other then the functioning problems. The only problems I have had with this gun has been with heavy hard cast bullets. The problem with the slide locking back early seems to have been fixed by modifying the slide stop. The two failure to eject was something new and I'm not sure it was caused by the ammo. That's enough in my option to disqualify this pistol until it can be assured that it's reliable.



    To be honest, the .45+P load did so will I would just carry it.
    In one of the Gun Guys videos, Bill Wilson talked about the relation between bullet weight, mags springs, and slide function. Maybe @GJM could ask him some 10mm questions. Wilson does make a 10mm 1911, so they have to have worked something out.
    I am Jack's complete lack of outrage.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    In one of the Gun Guys videos, Bill Wilson talked about the relation between bullet weight, mags springs, and slide function. Maybe @GJM could ask him some 10mm questions. Wilson does make a 10mm 1911, so they have to have worked something out.
    Of all the 10mm platforms, the 1911 is the one most likely to run with heavy, hardcast WFN 10mm loads. The single stack magazine is long enough that the bullet won't rub against the magazine walls. The key though is that you can mess with the mainspring weight and firing pin stop geometry to retard the reward slide momentum. In a striker-fired gun, you are limited to just jacking up the recoil spring weight, which makes it all the harder for the magazine to present the fresh round in time.

    In a strictly academic sense, I'd be interested in what Mr. Wilson has to say about getting heavy, wide profile bullets to run in the 10mm 1911, but I really don't want to use a 1911 as a field pistol.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    In one of the Gun Guys videos, Bill Wilson talked about the relation between bullet weight, mags springs, and slide function. Maybe @GJM could ask him some 10mm questions. Wilson does make a 10mm 1911, so they have to have worked something out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    Of all the 10mm platforms, the 1911 is the one most likely to run with heavy, hardcast WFN 10mm loads. The single stack magazine is long enough that the bullet won't rub against the magazine walls. The key though is that you can mess with the mainspring weight and firing pin stop geometry to retard the reward slide momentum. In a striker-fired gun, you are limited to just jacking up the recoil spring weight, which makes it all the harder for the magazine to present the fresh round in time.

    In a strictly academic sense, I'd be interested in what Mr. Wilson has to say about getting heavy, wide profile bullets to run in the 10mm 1911, but I really don't want to use a 1911 as a field pistol.
    Wilson Combat will make what the customer wants in a quality 1911, and a lot of people feel the 10mm is it for a 1911 field pistol. Some years back, Bill Wilson pushed me to the .45 Super which he personally preferred to the 10mm, for a field gun.

    I have found my 1911 pistols to feed hard cast 10mm well, but as I have described previously, the 1911 feature set doesnít work well for my use as a field pistol.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Some years back, Bill Wilson pushed me to the .45 Super which he personally preferred to the 10mm, for a field gun.
    Why did he prefer .45 Super over 10mm?
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream.

  9. #9
    Site Supporter JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5pins View Post
    I'm not sure if the problems I had has any relevance in the real world other then the functioning problems. The only problems I have had with this gun has been with heavy hard cast bullets. The problem with the slide locking back early seems to have been fixed by modifying the slide stop. The two failure to eject was something new and I'm not sure it was caused by the ammo. That's enough in my option to disqualify this pistol until it can be assured that it's reliable.



    To be honest, the .45+P load did so will I would just carry it.
    +1 the super vetted service pistol platforms have too many solid ammo choices for me to deal with incremental 10mm ballistic advantages but relatively unknown reliability territory (many guns, many conditions and many many rounds).
    "I realized all the mindset talk was useless without action and that with action, all the mindset talk was unnecessary." - Mike Pannone

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    Why did he prefer .45 Super over 10mm?
    It has been enough years, that I only remember his conclusion.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

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