I am waiting on a 14.5 5.56 pinned upper to arrive and I have a lower with a LAW folder for my lightweight, more portable AR option. Did not want to deal with NFA issues crossing state lines for a SBR. I have a 14.5 pinned 6.8 upper and is it very handy.
If you only have one AR, I think it’d be unwise to have it be anything other than 16.1” OAL. The ATF does whatever they want, especially with pistols so IMO you’re setting yourself up to be in a tight spot at some point.
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The only way to know if an 11.5 upper with LPV will work for you is to get one and shoot it. I have a scoped 11.5" upper and it works fine for me.Originally Posted by Shorikid
Put together the 11.5" upper with LPV and run it. Keep the 16" upper on hand and see how it fits in the grand scheme of things. I have a couple of 16" uppers that I really like, but don't get shot as often as they aren't suppressed.
Scoping a pistol has never been a legal issue.
Negative. Shorter barrel gives lower velocity. All else being equal, lower velocity equals lower recoil.
A clever fellow would remove the brace or install a 16" barrel and altogether avoid becoming the test case in the first place. Less worry. More shooting.
Last edited by MistWolf; 07-19-2019 at 04:16 PM.
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Sorry, when I first replied I was holding over for a graveyard OT shift, maybe my thoughts on scopes shouldn’t have ever been said in the first place..... I’m not saying scoping a pistol is or ever will be a legal issue. I anticipate that when traveling with a pistol, I may run across a less educated officer in certain states. For example, I traveled to Colorado this summer. When I did, I pulled my upper off my SBR lower, slapped it on my pistol lower and rolled on. But like most things, I think it’s best to rehearse how you’d articulate certain actions, including explaining to an officer which may be unaware of braces, how they work and the legality of them. When using a brace with a scoped upper, all I’m saying is mentally rehearse all your articulation incase you come across an uninformed officer.
That said, this is what was in my backseat for the trip:
When it comes to recoil, the problem is we don’t live in a vacuum. While there may be factual basis that a longer barrel allowing more pressure from the gasses equates to more recoil than a shorter barrel where there’s not as much opportunity for the velocity increase, there’s way more moving parts than that. When you factor in all the other variables such as gas system length, internal pressures, dwell time, etc. there will be a difference between a carbine and an SBR.
While shooting two identically setup rifles, both properly regulated in terms of buffer weight and buffer springs, both BCM guns, both wearing a BCM comp, same optic type, same stock, etc. the 14.5 midlength gun shoots significantly softer than the 11.5. Significantly softer, with less muzzle movement.
Add to that, I can run a BCM comp on my 14.5 pretty comfortably, but in my applications, the BCM comp on my shorty is way to blasty, so I have a FCD 6315 instead. In my experience, brakes and comps that are great on longer guns make shooting short barrels atrocious.
There is a reason you almost never see 3 gun shooters running around with a 10.3” barrel as opposed to the 16-18” guns. There is a reason that 10.3” guns have a shorter life-span. These shorter barrels, all things considered, generally have more recoil. It’s still just a big 22 magnum, so it’s not like we’re talking 22LR vs .50 BMG, but there is a difference.
That's a good point. Officers are always pointing out how people talk themselves into jail. I recently took a trip to Idaho and to reduce potential for any misunderstanding, I separated all my ARs and packed the uppers and lowers in separate cases.
I like that set up. I bet it shoots good...this is what was in my backseat for the trip:
We don't live in a vacuum but we do live in a world where the laws of physics must be obeyed. I have no doubt that your 14.5 is a softer shooter, but softer recoil does not equal less recoil. Softer recoil is recoil that is transferred to the shooter over a longer period of time. What would be more comfortable- riding in a car traveling 75 miles an hour where it was brought to a stop using the brakes to slow the car over time? Or riding in the same car doing 40 miles an hour but brought to a sudden stop by slamming into a brick wall? The rider in the car doing 75 miles an hour is subjected to greater momentum than the rider in the car doing 40. But the transfer of momentum (which is what happens when the shooter is subjected to recoil) during the stop is spread out over a longer period of time and is softer....the 14.5 midlength gun shoots significantly softer than the 11.5...
The recoil in the 11.5 feels harsher because the acceleration of the carrier happens quicker to get it up to speed during the shorter blow down time available in the shorter barrel. But, all else being equal (bullet mass, powder charge and weapon mass) the recoil forces are less because velocity of the bullet is less.
Note: Any decrease in the mass of the AR will increase free recoil, offsetting the reduction of free recoil from the lowered velocity. How much offset there will be depends on how much the mass is decreased.
Last edited by MistWolf; 07-19-2019 at 08:40 PM.
We wish to thank the United Network Command for Law and Enforcement, without whose assistance this program would not have been possible.
My experience has been the same. I had a Battlecomp I used on a 20" and a 16" and it was not much worse than an A2 birdcage. But when I installed it on a 10.5" barrel, the blast was horrible. I had the honor of shooting as a guest on the personal range of a well known instructor and after a couple of shots, he took me aside and explained politely but firmly that he would not allow me to run that in one of his classes as it would be too disruptive to the other students. I replaced it with a suppressor.
We wish to thank the United Network Command for Law and Enforcement, without whose assistance this program would not have been possible.
I probably could have cleared up any disagreement if I’d stated “felt recoil” instead of just “recoil.” I’m not scientific enough with my gas/fluid dynamics and engineering physics stuff to get into specific articulation of the actual recoil of the gun.
My 11.5 despite being a good bit heavier than my 14.5 has more FELT recoil. The impulse on the shooter with a properly setup carbine length gun will be less harsh than a shorty.
So when it comes to new shooters, or pure shooting performance, I prefer a carbine over a shorty. In general, I recommend a carbine over a shorty, SBR or pistol. That said, I love my 11.5, but only because it fits a specific niche for my purposes.
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