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Thread: Shooting from Retention

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by DWW View Post
    I own several revolvers in addition to my semi-autos and will often carry a snubbie. Will the thumb-pectoral index work as well with revolvers(S&W 640, 442)? Do I need to make any adjustments to the technique and how I flag my thumb or position the gun?
    I have not yet found anyone who has needed to make any adjustment for any revolver. Generally adjustments come more from physical limitations of the shooter rather than from gear
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  2. #102
    Site Supporter Sidheshooter's Avatar
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    Runcible nailed it, and Cecil confirmed. I’ll only add that I ran a 640 last ECQC, and the only limitations came from the shooter, not the gun.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by runcible View Post
    Revolvers pair just fine with the TPI, and derive all of the same benefits as an auto when doing so - namely that the weapon is firing from a consistent position, at a consistent angle least-likely to intersect with one's own fending limbs, that same angle such that it can index off of hip orientation along the way to a firing solution, be able to remain so throughout firing the entire volume of loaded ammunition, and while minimizing opportunities for an opponent to touch the weapon.

    I'm not aware of any special adaptations that are required for it; though - I do not write authoritatively on this matter. The thumb still needs to be flagged upwards and indexed against the edge of the pectoral muscle; the shoulder needs to be articulated upwards and backwards with the elbow leading that movement.

    The one caveat that comes to mind still applies to autos - the prohibition on ported barrels remains in effect. This is not exclusive to the TPI as a concern, but it still bears mentioning.
    When trying the TPI on my Glocks, the flagged thumb really seems to lock in pretty well against the frames beavertail, but on the revolvers my grip doesn't feel very stable.

  4. #104
    If, with a pistol held in a single hand and an upwards-flagged thumb (a la TPI) for that same, one was to also attempt to touch the second joint of the thumb (metacarpophalangeal joint of thumb) to the base knuckle of the trigger finger (metacarpophalangeal joint of index finger); then a vicing action would be accomplished around the back of the gun's grip. More so, that press of the thumb against the frame would be muscular tension pre-loaded in opposition to the eventual press of the trigger.

    (This isn't how most people I'm around shoot one-hand only, and it's one of the four specific adaptations that I offer when working in that vein. I liken it to a false-grip when lifting or using a bar, wherein the thumb closing the fist can seem visually desirable but be detrimental to measured performance. In some circumstances, the thumb needs to get out of the way or do something else, to let that grip close more fully and with greater expressed strength. Additionally, flagging the thumb upwards raises the overall height of the single-handed shooting grip for the entire thumb-side of things; raising the points of applied pressure away from the lower three fingers and closer to the boreline, allowing for a more linear reception of the recoil impulse.)

    I write all of this to explain why the flagged thumb can hugely contribute to the stability of the firearm during firing, whether in the TPI or at full-extension single-handed.

    Tying this in with revolvers:

    - Revolver geometry follows several trends stemming from such influences as the absence of a reciprocating slide, the requirements of the swinging hammer, and the need for the cylinder to sit within a rectangular frame. From this descend a lack of material reaching overhanging above the firing grip, some sort of slope transitioning the space between backstrap and topstrap, and the back edge of the topstrap where the rear sights may be found is the closest facsimile of an automatic's beavertail.

    - If one were to moderate the degree with which the thumb were flagged upwards, sufficient that the inner-edge of the third knuckle (interphalangeal joint of thumb) could press with authority against the space between backstrap and topstrap while the outer-edge of the thumb still indexes into the trailing edge of the pectoral muscle; then one could achieve both the goal of a superior\muscular one-handed grip of the revolver AND perform the required elements of the TPI. (It may feel like less of a press by the thumb's edge\face into the pectoral, and instead more of a stab\poke by the tip; but the technique works.)

    - Following on to that last, it's a specific modification only applicable to firing a revolver from the TPI - I don't train to perform that diagnostic and apply that modification auto vs revolver; as I run autos all day long. If I were to run a J-frame as my primary like the previous owner (and ECQC\EWO grad) of my J, I would train full-time to assert that moderated flag of the thumb every time coming out of the holster - running off of the tactile pairing of thumb-edge\frame out of the holster and then thumb-tip\pectoral-edge at position-2\TPI. As is, that guy's org switched from Js to a newer system for their UC program, and for me it's all academic.

    - How much space is available to press the inner-edge of the thumb against is contingent upon the revolver in question - the specifics of the cylinder release, shrouded or exposed hammer, and rear sight affair being the main influences. The J-frame I pulled is an S&W 442 with shrouded hammer, and there is more than enough real estate to apply such pressure; it wasn't an issue that last time I shot it from the TPI. Exposed hammer J-frames will have less of a perch, but should have enough to apply effective pressure (I've tried with a few, but cannot speak for all).
    Last edited by runcible; 08-11-2019 at 02:22 PM.
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