Teach me about STI guns

[BK14]

No 1911/2011 is gonna be a Glock but then again no Glock is going to have the human factors / shootability of a 1911/2011.

I use a 1911 on duty, not a 2011 (yet). I’ve had two catastrophic (part breakage) failures of my Glock 34.3 I carry on duty when not with the 1911, extraction issues on my off duty 19.4, firing pin started to seize on a 34.5 I use for training. Countless mag related failures with worn/dirty OEM and Magpul mags in competition with my 34.3. Triggers/connector components wearing into a gritty mess on multiple guns. And so on. Point being, guns break, regardless of Glock or STI. Proper maintenance helps, and yes Glock’s CAN be more reliable out of the box, but I don’t see them as some perfect holy grail of reliability and shooting ability. Just another tool that’ll break like everything else.

My 1911 is getting some upgrades (no, I don’t have a second duplicate gun, I’m a broke dumbass and looking to correct that very soon) so I’m carrying my 34.3 again. With proper maintenance, and good mags I’m confident in the gun’s reliability, same as I am with a properly setup 1911, but I shoot the 1911 better.

[Tango]

Not for nothing, but those units have long favored and issued 1911s. You probably know as well as I do that some orgs have biases toward particular platforms - sometimes for good reasons and sometimes for less defendable reasons (for example “We are SWAT/Special Operations. We are more qualified and need a different pistol to prove it.”)

I’ve not read anything about why USMS SOG switched. If you’ve got info that didn’t come from Buck at STI, then I’d be interested to see it.

I’ll be more impressed when agencies start turning in G17s for STIs.

Both the G17 and Stacatto are good guns. I personally carry a G17 for work over a P320, G19 and G26. Does that make the other guns bad? NO, it just means I feel I am best served with the G17 and set up with that gun in a comfortable way. The G19 and P320 were also NOT on the approved carry list when I made the decision. So, if someone looks at my holster and says G17 is KING, they aren't getting all the information are they? They don't even know I shoot a 1911 outside of work!

How is SOG going to 2011s somehow due to 1911 bias but HRT making a Glock decision, within a GLOCK organization spot on? We can't have it both ways! Just different guys tackling the same problem set with a different tool. We can also state HRT did NOT have the Staccato to look at when it made it's G17 decision.

I also already commented on not believing the Stacatto would replace plastic, striker fired guns! They are too cheap and check off enough boxes for non gun guys at HQ. The 1911/2011 will almost always live in a specialized unit or personal carry program at those organizations.

Watching how the Stacatto moves forward in the civ/leo/mil world should interesting.

[JodyH]

Watching how the Stacatto moves forward in the civ/leo/mil world should interesting.

The Staccato P is too large to make much headway outside of duty use.
The Staccato C has too low of a capacity for its size to be more than a niche pistol.
The DVC C is just about the perfect carry 2011 but that $3000 sticker price... yea... no.
The only way the Staccato line will go anywhere outside of specialized LE is if they integrate the Staccato upgrades into the Guardian/VIP line.

[BigD]

Both the G17 and Stacatto are good guns. I personally carry a G17 for work over a P320, G19 and G26. Does that make the other guns bad? NO, it just means I feel I am best served with the G17 and set up with that gun in a comfortable way. The G19 and P320 were also NOT on the approved carry list when I made the decision. So, if someone looks at my holster and says G17 is KING, they aren't getting all the information are they? They don't even know I shoot a 1911 outside of work!

How is SOG going to 2011s somehow due to 1911 bias but HRT making a Glock decision, within a GLOCK organization spot on? We can't have it both ways! Just different guys tackling the same problem set with a different tool. We can also state HRT did NOT have the Staccato to look at when it made it's G17 decision.

I also already commented on not believing the Stacatto would replace plastic, striker fired guns! They are too cheap and check off enough boxes for non gun guys at HQ. The 1911/2011 will almost always live in a specialized unit or personal carry program at those organizations.

Watching how the Stacatto moves forward in the civ/leo/mil world should interesting.

Speaking of having it both ways - when I point out that a statistically insignificant percentage of LEO's are carrying a SIT (only in the context that any declaration the STI is taking the tactical world by storm is premature btw), you say those LEO's don't have free will and the decision is made by non-gun guys at HQ. But when a small handful of units (that previously carried 1911s) have chosen the STI it's proof that it's passed muster?

Units that chose STI = squared away and validate the STI as a duty grade pistol.

Departments that didn't consider the STI = run by beancounters and admin boners.

Look, all my posts can be summed up as this - it's too early to tell if the STI has the reliability to be a duty grade pistol but due to the company 's history I wouldn't be an early adopter.

I'm not sure bringing up the FBI helped your post. They were a "Glock agency" (to use your words) for a long time but their SWAT and HRT still were able to chose a 1911. Until they didn't.

(Shocked 😲to learn you shoot a 1911 outside of work.)

[BigD]

I use a 1911 on duty, not a 2011 (yet). I’ve had two catastrophic (part breakage) failures of my Glock 34.3 I carry on duty when not with the 1911, extraction issues on my off duty 19.4, firing pin started to seize on a 34.5 I use for training. Countless mag related failures with worn/dirty OEM and Magpul mags in competition with my 34.3. Triggers/connector components wearing into a gritty mess on multiple guns. And so on. Point being, guns break, regardless of Glock or STI. Proper maintenance helps, and yes Glock’s CAN be more reliable out of the box, but I don’t see them as some perfect holy grail of reliability and shooting ability. Just another tool that’ll break like everything else.

My 1911 is getting some upgrades (no, I don’t have a second duplicate gun, I’m a broke dumbass and looking to correct that very soon) so I’m carrying my 34.3 again. With proper maintenance, and good mags I’m confident in the gun’s reliability, same as I am with a properly setup 1911, but I shoot the 1911 better.

It's not a question of whether a gun can break or malfunction. Of course any make can and will.

It's a question of whether one make breaks or malfunctions much more than another.

I'm surprised I have to point this out.

[shane45]

Duty double stack 1911's have been tried in the past with not so good results. I'm under the impression that is fairly well known. So for this road to get traveled again, I'm betting it had to doubly prove its self in vetting this go around.

[ranger]

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...omment-3099198

Texas Ranger group purchase STIs - 9mm, Commander and Government lengths.

[El Cid]

How is SOG going to 2011s somehow due to 1911 bias but HRT making a Glock decision, within a GLOCK organization spot on? We can't have it both ways! Just different guys tackling the same problem set with a different tool. We can also state HRT did NOT have the Staccato to look at when it made it's G17 decision.

Right or wrong (not my place to say) HRT tends to mirror what a certain SMU at Ft Bragg does. The Marshals have a proud history and tend to forge their own path. Again - not judgement, just an observation.

I kicked around getting a DVC-C for the past few weeks.
Borrowed a friends 2011 for a few days and remembered why I'm not a fan of anything with a top pivoting grip safety.
Just doing some familiarization shooting everything worked great.
As soon as I ramped up the difficulty on the draw (speed, movement, weird positions etc.) i'd fail to engage the grip safety probably 25% of the time slowing my initial shot considerably.
Getting a really high grip, thumbs forward riding the thumb safety tends to leave a gap right where there needs to be pressure to deactivate the grip safety. At least for my size L/XL but thin hands, maybe if I had more meat on my palms it'd be different.
Of course I could replace/bypass the grip safety with a SVI fixed beavertail but if I was going that direction i'd just buy a Wilson EDC X9 instead (and get a better magazine design IMO).
But neither of those has such a significant advantage over my 19X to make the changeover worth it to me.

Complete agreement here. The grip safety was a cavalry specific requirement. I have no idea why anyone still makes 1911/2011 guns with them anymore. Especially in a world with firing pin safeties. My dream custom 1911 would use “The Answer” one piece blackstrap from Novak’s.

[HCM]

Duty double stack 1911's have been tried in the past with not so good results. I'm under the impression that is fairly well known. So for this road to get traveled again, I'm betting it had to doubly prove its self in vetting this go around.

Yes, and the issue came down to mags. Neither Para nor prior STI mags were up to snuff. The fact that they were .45s and the weight of the ammo va the strength of the springs was another issue.

HK, Glock and S&W have al made reliable double stack .45s though, particularly HK. You know why ? Magazines. HK is a magazine company. Their mags are engineered for maximum reliability rather than maximum capacity.

If making good, consistent mags was easy, Colt, HK, SIG, Beretta, S&W etc would not outsource mag production.

One of STI’s changes to try and get into the LE/GOV market is they redesigned and outsourced their 2011 magazines. Which also dropped the price. So far the new production mags seem to be living up to the hype and they are $40-45 a pop rather than $75 or more.

Speaking of mags, while some of the old, in house STI mags needed tuning to run, part of the 2011s negative reputation is based on competitors trying to cram as many rounds as possible into a mag of a certain length. As we have seen with trying to cram 8 rounds into a 7 round length 1911 mag tube, 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag is not a recipe for reliability.

[Bucky]

Speaking of mags, while some of the old, in house STI mags needed tuning to run, part of the 2011s negative reputation is based on competitors trying to cram as many rounds as possible into a mag of a certain length. As we have seen with trying to cram 8 rounds into a 7 round length 1911 mag tube, 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag is not a recipe for reliability.

Truth.

On a similar note, it makes me leery of components like Mag Guts. I’ve seen quite a few posts of people using these in their carry guns, especially the smaller ones like the 43, etc.