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Thread: Teach me about STI guns

  1. #71
    I got to put a few hundred rounds through a Staccato P and it is a nice gun but don’t see the big deal with these duty type 2011s.

    I am all for another quality option out there (especially 1911/2011 stuff) and if they are working for people then rock on. But I cannot help think if there is more hype then substance with these type guns.

    I also shot it side by side with my gen 5 g45 and really came away more impressed with the g45 then the STI, which is probably heresy to some.

    Of course the trigger is going to play a part in how these guns shoot, obviously a apples to orange comparison. Nice trigger on the Staccato P. A few times it had me rolling through the Glock trigger press wondering when it is going to break. On the recoil side of things the gun recoils soft but this is were I was more impressed by the G45 then the STI. When I put on the x300u on the g45, which is how I carry it, the recoil was very similar to each other and any difference was negligible. Even without the WML off the recoil was still close and is something that is not even a consideration for me. Overall they are nice guns that are another option for people who want to run a 1911/2011 type gun.

  2. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by EVP View Post
    I got to put a few hundred rounds through a Staccato P and it is a nice gun but don’t see the big deal with these duty type 2011s.

    I am all for another quality option out there (especially 1911/2011 stuff) and if they are working for people then rock on. But I cannot help think if there is more hype then substance with these type guns.

    .
    Too much hype? I don’t know. Maybe they are the cats pajamas. But given there some 765,000 LEOs in the US, and maybe 100-200 (??) are carrying the new STIs, any idea that STI is taking the tactical world by storm is premature. What’s that? 0.0002%?

    As someone that started USPSA 15 or so years ago, I’ve seen countless STIs choke. They may have fixed the “mags must be tuned before using”, but the guns were also sensitive to OAL and needed extractors tuned frequently. Some gunsmiths made their living getting STIs to run consistently.

    It would take a lot of data for me to trust my life with one given what I’ve seen in the past, regardless of new management or how many podcasts the brand manager goes on, or how many IG shooter have them.
    (My agency would never switch to a STI and so it’s really just a thought exercise for me.)
    Last edited by BigD; 08-26-2019 at 12:48 PM.

  3. #73
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    "As someone that started USPSA 15 or so years ago, I’ve seen countless STIs choke. They may have fixed the “mags must be tuned before using”, but the guns were also sensitive to OAL and needed extractors tuned frequently. Some gunsmiths made their living getting STIs to run consistently. "

    One consideration to this statement. Saying that competition 2011's has a correlation to current factory carry guns reliability is a bit like saying Honda civic reliability is in question due to all the issues observed at the import tuner races at the drag strip. Additionally a metric ton of STI's in competition weren't built by STI, just built on their frame. I agree on the mags, however and as we all know, its paramount to 1911/2011 reliability. It seems they realised that and the new mags seem are likely key to the new found reliability IMO.

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by shane45 View Post
    "As someone that started USPSA 15 or so years ago, I’ve seen countless STIs choke. They may have fixed the “mags must be tuned before using”, but the guns were also sensitive to OAL and needed extractors tuned frequently. Some gunsmiths made their living getting STIs to run consistently. "

    One consideration to this statement. Saying that competition 2011's has a correlation to current factory carry guns reliability is a bit like saying Honda civic reliability is in question due to all the issues observed at the import tuner races at the drag strip. Additionally a metric ton of STI's in competition weren't built by STI, just built on their frame. I agree on the mags, however and as we all know, its paramount to 1911/2011 reliability. It seems they realised that and the new mags seem are likely key to the new found reliability IMO.
    With all respect, that analogy doesn’t really hold up in my eyes I’m talking bog standard STI Edges in 40 where conventional wisdom is you need to buy from Dawson or Brazos and have them do a $500 tuning/reliability package before shipping. So that’s not really analogous to a Honda Civic with aftermarket forced induction or what have you. The Edges are hardly bleeding edge open guns.

    To be fair, I’m sure some of the STIs I saw choke had been dickered with it or there were ammo issues - (ammo issues though doesn’t get them completely off the hook since a duty gun shouldn’t be finicky to ammo). But I know that many were unmolested guns in factory condition.

    If they couldn’t make their flagship Edge reliable (at least certainly not reliable to duty standard), then what is supposed to make me think they cracked the code with the Staccato? Cause they got the guns into the hands of a few SRTs and influencers? It would take more than that.
    Last edited by BigD; 08-26-2019 at 10:42 PM.

  5. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by BigD View Post
    With all respect, that analogy doesn’t really hold up in my eyes I’m talking bog standard STI Edges in 40 where conventional wisdom is you need to buy from Dawson or Brazos and have them do a $500 tuning/reliability package before shipping. So that’s not really analogous to a Honda Civic with aftermarket forced induction or what have you. The Edges are hardly bleeding edge open guns.

    To be fair, I’m sure some of the STIs I saw choke had been dickered with it or there were ammo issues - (ammo issues though doesn’t get them completely off the hook since a duty gun shouldn’t be finicky to ammo). But I know that many were unmolested guns in factory condition.

    If they couldn’t make their flagship Edge reliable (at least certainly not reliable to duty standard), then what is supposed to make me think they cracked the code with the Staccato? Cause they got the guns into the hands of a few SRTs and influencers? It would take more than that.

    STI has a whole new leadership team now. I think all of them are ex-military. Dave Dawson was even on board for a while during the leadership transition. That's why they slimmed down the product line to just a few models. Hopefully they get it right this time and have the new models running reliably. Since they are now marketing primarily to mil/le, they better have something that runs reliably because bad news travels fast.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by andre3k; 08-27-2019 at 12:46 AM.

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by EVP View Post
    I got to put a few hundred rounds through a Staccato P and it is a nice gun but don’t see the big deal with these duty type 2011s.

    I am all for another quality option out there (especially 1911/2011 stuff) and if they are working for people then rock on. But I cannot help think if there is more hype then substance with these type guns.
    STIs, dots, light triggers, and other crazy mods help you make the shots that you probably shouldn’t even consider in a real world scenario.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigD View Post
    With all respect, that analogy doesn’t really hold up in my eyes I’m talking bog standard STI Edges in 40 where conventional wisdom is you need to buy from Dawson or Brazos and have them do a $500 tuning/reliability package before shipping. So that’s not really analogous to a Honda Civic with aftermarket forced induction or what have you. The Edges are hardly bleeding edge open guns.

    To be fair, I’m sure some of the STIs I saw choke had been dickered with it or there were ammo issues - (ammo issues though doesn’t get them completely off the hook since a duty gun shouldn’t be finicky to ammo). But I know that many were unmolested guns in factory condition.

    If they couldn’t make their flagship Edge reliable (at least certainly not reliable to duty standard), then what is supposed to make me think they cracked the code with the Staccato? Cause they got the guns into the hands of a few SRTs and influencers? It would take more than that.


    A stock Edge running factory ammo was not something I recall seeing! Even if it wasnt heavily modified, the springs were changed trying to get the most neutral return and ammo was loaded to JUST make PF. But that was the nature of competition. With all that being said, and some of your points I agree with, the new STI's seem exceptionally different from the ones I observed back in the day. I actually called STI and spoke to them. I wanted to know if my current pistol was off a special production line. The answer was that it was not. It is tight and runs great. Its build quality compared favorably with my Ed Brown for a point of reference.

  8. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by shane45 View Post
    A stock Edge running factory ammo was not something I recall seeing! Even if it wasnt heavily modified, the springs were changed trying to get the most neutral return and ammo was loaded to JUST make PF. But that was the nature of competition. With all that being said, and some of your points I agree with, the new STI's seem exceptionally different from the ones I observed back in the day. I actually called STI and spoke to them. I wanted to know if my current pistol was off a special production line. The answer was that it was not. It is tight and runs great. Its build quality compared favorably with my Ed Brown for a point of reference.
    You are right that (almost) no one shoots factory ammo in Limited in USPSA. But if it were just ammo related problems,
    owners wouldn’t have needed to have Brazos or Dawson do a reliability package on them.

    I hate to belabor my point but before everyone that bought a good one replies to tell me so... They are fine pistols and the most popular pistol in Limited. It’s the jump from competition pistols to the tactical/duty world that has me skeptical. Is it possible they can do it Sure. But the jury is not still out. It hasn’t even been selected yet.

  9. #79
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    BigD, first I just want to make sure you correctly interpret my continued discussion as just discussion, not argument. I hear what your saying about Brazo's and Dawson, but time frame is relevant here. I wonder if the service is still offered on current production. From what I remember, a key point in their reliability package was mag tuning. It was common for people to buy a new STI and turn around and send all their mags in to someone like freedom gunworks for tuning. But the new mags seem to have helped a lot. But back in the day I handles a lot of STI's including my own edge. My current STI is a completely different level pistol. So there is clearly a change that has taken place. Tons of reports on the Staccato are all favorable that Ive seen.

  10. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by BigD View Post
    Too much hype? I don’t know. Maybe they are the cats pajamas. But given there some 765,000 LEOs in the US, and maybe 100-200 (??) are carrying the new STIs, any idea that STI is taking the tactical world by storm is premature. What’s that? 0.0002%?
    700,000+ guys and gals all don't get to choose what they carry OR have a limited list designed by non gun people at a HQ far, far away.

    The current guns we are talking about from STI are different iterations than previous weapons. Almost a Kimber 1998 weapon vs a Kimber 2005 gun. Plenty of good information on Lightfighter regarding the new stance of the product and company.

    I don't think it will supplant $450 plastic striker fired guns in mass quantity but it has caught on in several very hard places to be accepted. USMS SOG, Riverside County SWAT and Long Beach SWAT are issuing the guns. LAPD has approved the gun for duty use with specialized units including Metro, SIS and SWAT have large groups of buyers. Have we looked at any of the testing data or read why USMS SOG switched to the platform?

    I for one carry a G17 for work. If the Staccato P was offered on my approved carry list, I'd give it a good look. 21 rounds, single action trigger, for maybe an ounce or two more than I am currently carrying. All in a 1911 style package that lends itself to actually shooting well rather than working around the gun? That sounds like something I want to look into and kick the tires on.
    Last edited by Tango; 08-28-2019 at 07:51 PM.

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