Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26

Thread: LWRC .45 PCC

  1. #1
    Site Supporter JHC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Georgia

    LWRC .45 PCC

    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...e-is-shipping/


    Name:  SMGPB458S_0140-920x580.jpg
Views: 522
Size:  28.5 KB


    "Cambridge, MD (July 2019) – One of the most exciting product releases in LWRCI™ company history is finally here. LWRCI™ announces the release of its first pistol-caliber carbine – the SMG-45. This highly-anticipated SMG model combines the company’s experience on the AR platform with an innovative delayed-blowback/short-recoil operating system to deliver a unique pistol-caliber carbine shooting experience."
    "I realized all the mindset talk was useless without action and that with action, all the mindset talk was unnecessary." - Mike Pannone

  2. #2
    Site Supporter JHC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Georgia
    I don't know a ton about PCCs and can't speak to true efficiency etc. But boy this sounds like a fun blaster.

    @GJM I'm thinking loaded up with Critical Duty +P. Unless heavy cast loads feed well.
    "I realized all the mindset talk was useless without action and that with action, all the mindset talk was unnecessary." - Mike Pannone

  3. #3
    When new PCC designs started showing up, DocGKR basically said, unless you had a pistol caliber in full auto, stick with a rifle caliber.

    I was always fascinated with the cool factor of short pistol caliber carbines, and when they became available got some. Then USPSA made PCC a provisional division and I started competing with a PCC. Leaving aside ballistics, which is Gary’s wheelhouse, my practical experience is they aren’t a first choice for use besides training, where the PCC allows you to shoot steel that you can’t with a rifle and have less noise. Watching a wide variety of pistol caliber carbines in use in competition, they are far less reliable and durable than an AR in a rifle caliber. In terms of realistic defensive scenarios, the PCC gives you almost no shooting advantage over a red dot equipped pistol, and comes with a major disadvantage in how to conceal and deploy.

    In contrast, a small .300 BLK seems very useful.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter JHC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Georgia
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    When new PCC designs started showing up, DocGKR basically said, unless you had a pistol caliber in full auto, stick with a rifle caliber.

    I was always fascinated with the cool factor of short pistol caliber carbines, and when they became available got some. Then USPSA made PCC a provisional division and I started competing with a PCC. Leaving aside ballistics, which is Gary’s wheelhouse, my practical experience is they aren’t a first choice for use besides training, where the PCC allows you to shoot steel that you can’t with a rifle and have less noise. Watching a wide variety of pistol caliber carbines in use in competition, they are far less reliable and durable than an AR in a rifle caliber. In terms of realistic defensive scenarios, the PCC gives you almost no shooting advantage over a red dot equipped pistol, and comes with a major disadvantage in how to conceal and deploy.

    In contrast, a small .300 BLK seems very useful.
    +1 mostly fun and training.

    OTOH July 4th I did a little drilling with an AR carbine at multiple targets from 7-25 yards. Something I have not done in at least a year. The speed at which I could make multiple hits on a much reduced A zone target vastly exceeds what I can do with a pistol. Does the PCC recoil difference vs a 5.56 make a big difference? Last year I dumped a magazine through a 9mm AR pattern pistol with a brace and it was a softie but it had some sort of rotating bolt enhancement to mitigate recoil I think. The brand name escapes me.


    +1 on the .300 BLK
    Last edited by JHC; 07-08-2019 at 08:08 AM.
    "I realized all the mindset talk was useless without action and that with action, all the mindset talk was unnecessary." - Mike Pannone

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    +1 mostly fun and training.

    OTOH July 4th I did a little drilling with an AR carbine at multiple targets from 7-25 yards. Something I have not done in at least a year. The speed at which I could make multiple hits on a much reduced A zone target vastly exceeds what I can do with a pistol. Does the PCC recoil difference vs a 5.56 make a big difference? Last year I dumped a magazine through a 9mm AR pattern pistol with a brace and it was a softie but it had some sort of rotating bolt enhancement to mitigate recoil I think. The brand name escapes me.


    +1 on the .300 BLK
    There are multiple issues here — how different design pistol caliber carbines compare, pistol caliber carbines vs an AR platform in a rifle caliber, and rifle vs pistol.

    Let’s tackle rifles/carbines vs pistols in terms of pure shooting performance.

    As those of us shooting a PCC in USPSA, or shooting against a PCC in USPSA know, stage design has a big effect on outcome. If you stand and shoot in one place, and don’t have to deploy the carbine from concealment, a long gun is going to rock on a pure shooting task like very small targets, like your reduced A zone example. Add in transitions and movement, or close targets, and the results change.

    A really good data base of performance difference between various shooting sticks, is the Steel Challenge peak time data base. You can see, that on an apples to apples basis, the rimfire optic pistol is the fastest division in Steel Challenge.

    Name:  4EF48315-08B9-4B09-8162-8C8C2D5C61AF.jpg
Views: 487
Size:  81.6 KB
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  6. #6
    Member Keebsley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Idaho
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    When new PCC designs started showing up, DocGKR basically said, unless you had a pistol caliber in full auto, stick with a rifle caliber.

    I was always fascinated with the cool factor of short pistol caliber carbines, and when they became available got some. Then USPSA made PCC a provisional division and I started competing with a PCC. Leaving aside ballistics, which is Gary’s wheelhouse, my practical experience is they aren’t a first choice for use besides training, where the PCC allows you to shoot steel that you can’t with a rifle and have less noise. Watching a wide variety of pistol caliber carbines in use in competition, they are far less reliable and durable than an AR in a rifle caliber. In terms of realistic defensive scenarios, the PCC gives you almost no shooting advantage over a red dot equipped pistol, and comes with a major disadvantage in how to conceal and deploy.

    In contrast, a small .300 BLK seems very useful.
    I'll have to disagree with the bold portion as the vast majority of shoulder fired weapons will gain an advantage over a pistol due to multiple points of contact for a steadier and more stable platform to fire from. But I do agree at the ability to conceal and deploy being more difficult with the many "man bags" looking not very discrete and still having the issue of time to deploy. I know that people have thought about a single point sling attached to a 6SM RDS Glock ala single point slinged MP5's but the feasibility is still up in the air.

  7. #7
    That price is a real tough pill to swallow given B&Ts offerings...

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Keebsley View Post
    I'll have to disagree with the bold portion as the vast majority of shoulder fired weapons will gain an advantage over a pistol due to multiple points of contact for a steadier and more stable platform to fire from. But I do agree at the ability to conceal and deploy being more difficult with the many "man bags" looking not very discrete and still having the issue of time to deploy. I know that people have thought about a single point sling attached to a 6SM RDS Glock ala single point slinged MP5's but the feasibility is still up in the air.
    Certainly the long gun is easier to shoot, but the question is whether that advantage translates into measurable gains at typical defensive distances and scenarios. If you look at the peak times in the Steel Challenge classifications, and adjust for the difference between the low ready PCC start and a draw with Carry Optics, you see no difference between the CO and PCC divisions.

    I think the PCC advantage is greater for a less skilled shooter, but for skilled shooters I see no advantage to a shoulder fired semi auto pistol caliber launcher, especially considering the negatives around deployment and concealment. Now for a rifle caliber, different outcome.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    That price is a real tough pill to swallow given B&Ts offerings...

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
    Fo' realz! Price I'd spotted online was $2990, if memory serves. While LWRCI makes good gear, that's a far piece outside my budget for what is, very likely, a game gun/range toy. For that kind of scratch, you can really get a lot of bang for your proverbial buck, unless you just *have* to have one of these things.
    Last edited by Mntneer357; 07-10-2019 at 08:42 AM.

  10. #10
    Personally I’ve always thought PCC guns 9mm vs 5.56 are kind of silly. Kind of like shooting .22lr vs 9 or 40 for pistol. BUT Damn! that .45 looks cool as hell and reminds me of a modern grease gun meets mp-5.
    Or grease gun + Thompson + mp5 = this current offering. I want one! Can’t afford

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •