True, 9mm is a pistol caliber. Other than that, don't skip meds.Originally Posted by Greg Bell
True, 9mm is a pistol caliber. Other than that, don't skip meds.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
That is not my understanding of the causality involved, nor was it for the 10mm to .40S&W transition beforehand.
Jules
Runcible Works
Willful ignorance isn't worth engaging.
You can't fix stupid, you can only shame it.
Last edited by TGS; 07-07-2019 at 06:55 AM.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
Gregg Bell made some decent observations about the trend. Recently, an OIS video was released where the suspect armed with a knife was shot multiple times with a 9mm only to get up and physically take down the officer. The suspect then tried to disarm said officer before being shot again by a second officer. People immediately started questioning 9mm (where the bullets hit should be the focus of discussion) and I wondered if a couple of these type of incidents would swing the pendulum back to "self defense calibers start with a .4).
He's correct about SMG/PCC. Around 2000 we dumped our MP5s for 5.56 rifles. No one had any use for pistol caliber carbines because they couldn't defeat body armor and now everyone has one, include myself with an MPX.
From my understanding, he was SHOT AT multiple times, hit few. The ratio of round fired to impact on target has always seemed the larger issue to me.
ExactlyPeople immediately started questioning 9mm (where the bullets hit should be the focus of discussion) and I wondered if a couple of these type of incidents would swing the pendulum back to "self defense calibers start with a .4).
A prequel to my earlier post!....
When I was just getting into guns the 9mm was ascendant. .357 and .45 were on their way out, with the U.S. military and police agencies adopting da/sa wonder nines. An incident in Florida and a cranky Colonel with the ear of a few ammo and gun manufacturers resulted in the FBI adopting 10mm. Another incident in Florida and a lot of money spent on strippers at the Gold Club in Atlanta resulted in the parallel rise of the Glock. Everyone quickly dumped their old revolvers and slowly dumped their da/sa crunchentickers. Of course, the FBI couldn’t train people with da/sa 10mm boomers so they went to .40 caliber which bridged the gap between 9mm capacity and 10mm lethality. All was good.
But the AWB came along and that led to two things: (1) a revival of .45 and (2) the rise of compact 9mm. With high capacity magazines costing $50-100 and post 1994 models unavailable (except for Walther which hilariously got in zillions of pre-ban walther p-99 mags for a gun that was barely off the back of beer hall napkins in 1994). For a while the two streams split. Folks were carrying pre-ban guns, lots of Glock 23s, 229s. Others carried Kimbers, Wilson CQBs and other refined .45s that weren’t available before the late 80s except as customs. Others carried mini 9mms like the Glock 26, SiG P239 and amazing guns like the KAHR line. This is basically where things stood as the 00s began. This was before the current civilian training scene was popular. What outfits you did have were pretty much 1911 only.
Last edited by Greg Bell; 07-07-2019 at 10:14 AM.
[QUOTE=Greg Bell;901046][QUOTE]Thanks for the clarification. I'm glad you weren't being a natural dumb ass.So why start them ?
Oh I am that! I stand by the statement, I just know there is no profit in these discussions. I might as well show up at a Mosque munching pork skins and talking about the Holy Ghost.
It is fun to discuss the history of these things. Again, I apologize to those I offend.
Last edited by Greg Bell; 07-07-2019 at 10:24 AM.
Reply With Quote