CZ P07 - Beretta PX4 Compact Comparison?

[ralph]

I carried an original P-07 Duty in 9mm for upwards of a year straight AIWB using a cheap thin leather High Noon Upper Cut holster. I lived in the desert at the time so t-shirts were the norm for dress most of the year, had no problems with concealment on my small frame... actually best AIWB I've ever used.

My P-07 Duty was Canadian complaint model that has an extended (NOT threaded barrel) and factory night sights. It featured the old style frame with different type of polymer and no backstops removable. I did not care for the frame polymer they used, they are much more durable now... I had a large chip come off the beavertail tip on mine (which was pointier also compared to new models).

I also had a problem with rust in the rifling, possibly my fault... was not taking good care of it. CZ-USA fixed that for me free of charge, the upper finish back then was parkerizing (which I now understand needs to be constantly oiled for corrosion resistance). I am glad now that they.are using nitriding, as it is much better suited to this application IMO.

The trigger on mine was the old hooked style, which was to my memory quite a nice trigger pull both DA/SA. There was not stacking present and felt fairly light DA (maybe 9 pounds or so). The grip ergonomics were superb, I have smaller hands and handled quite a few double stack pistols and this one worked the best for me at the time. It also worked quite well for my wife.

This thread is making me reconsider getting a new P-07 for carry, especially if the decock mechanism is as good of a design as depicted here. CZ has basically fixed all my gripes about the pistol by the time they released the P-09 and upgraded the P-07 to reflect all that went into improving the Duty Series for the P-09.

jThat being said, I can't help but wonder are the issues Clusterfrack describes being able to reproduce actually the same as what GJM was having?

If you're talking about the hammer dropping to half cock,I think the issue is one and the same, but I'll add this..some people can make these pistols do this on demand, others like myself, tried, but all I got was some sore fingers to show for it. Is it an issue? I don't think it really is, because by now if it was a problem, it'd be all over the internet, CGW also sell some replacement parts they made to correct the issue should it arise. I would'nt worry about it.. I've yet to be able to make my example do this, maybe I'm not doing it right..

[miller_man]

If you're talking about the hammer dropping to half cock,I think the issue is one and the same, but I'll add this..some people can make these pistols do this on demand, others like myself, tried, but all I got was some sore fingers to show for it. Is it an issue? I don't think it really is, because by now if it was a problem, it'd be all over the internet, CGW also sell some replacement parts they made to correct the issue should it arise. I would'nt worry about it.. I've yet to be able to make my example do this, maybe I'm not doing it right..

Out of now 4 of my p-series pistols, I have one that I could make it happen with - also with MUCH trying and special focus on doing things just right. But mostly I got the super sore finger tip as well.

I am now getting pretty close to 20k through 3 of the pistols, plus probably ~5k in 22lr with the 1 pistol that can drop to half cock. I have never, ever had the issue happen in all the rounds sent downrange - plus never had it happen in 10x that amount of trigger presses in dry fire.

I am more than confident that for myself, pulling the trigger DA it will go bang.


I heard and read that CGW was making some part(s) to address it - but I've looked on their website a few times and never seen any such part listed.

[Clusterfrack]

Agree.

I've done a deep dive into this, including testing multiple guns with and without every aftermarket part available, and studying the design and function of the action. It's worth noting that the results of my testing are not consistent with some of the explanations from CGW. https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topi...7819#msg767819

I cannot cause a drop to half cock by lateral pressure on the trigger or by holding the gun upside down. I can always cause it by interrupting the trigger pull just as the DA sear is about to break. From my understanding of the action, I don't see how this could NOT happen. If it didn't, the gun wouldn't have a functional hammer drop safety.

I can do it quite easily (but painfully) by pulling the trigger with my 2nd knuckle and hitting or pinching the tip to interrupt the trigger just as the DA sear breaks. But it's such a weird way to pull the trigger that it is near the very bottom of my concerns about my guns working in a life safety situation. I’ve tried to make it happen with gloves, deep finger pull, a bunch of ways, and just can’t without a very contrived hand position.

On the other hand, someone with very long fingers, big hands, and a deep-finger trigger pull? And obviously GJMs experience makes it a poor choice for him.

[David S.]

In a year or so, once the Trijicon SRO becomes vetted, I may replace the RMR on one of my P-09’s and moving it to my PX4C. That would give me a gamer P-09, a primary carry P-09, a compact option PX4C and a 642 for my sub compact.

[GJM]

Agree.

I've done a deep dive into this, including testing multiple guns with and without every aftermarket part available, and studying the design and function of the action. It's worth noting that the results of my testing are not consistent with some of the explanations from CGW. https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topi...7819#msg767819

I cannot cause a drop to half cock by lateral pressure on the trigger or by holding the gun upside down. I can always cause it by interrupting the trigger pull just as the DA sear is about to break. From my understanding of the action, I don't see how this could NOT happen. If it didn't, the gun wouldn't have a functional hammer drop safety.

I can do it quite easily (but painfully) by pulling the trigger with my 2nd knuckle and hitting or pinching the tip to interrupt the trigger just as the DA sear breaks. But it's such a weird way to pull the trigger that it is near the very bottom of my concerns about my guns working in a life safety situation. I’ve tried to make it happen with gloves, deep finger pull, a bunch of ways, and just can’t without a very contrived hand position.

On the other hand, someone with very long fingers, big hands, and a deep-finger trigger pull? And obviously GJMs experience makes it a poor choice for him.

I have size Large palms, with longer fingers that force me into XL gloves.

[Redhat]

Thanks to everyone for all the information.

I made my decision and went with the CZ...now I just have to wait until my LGS gets it in.

The deciding factor was that "out of the box", I think I'll have less to do on the CZ.

[Super77]

Trigger “perfection” isn’t as important as many other aspects of a gun. When pulled at speed, what effect is there in a slight lack of smoothness?

My modded Shadow2s have about as perfect as a DA/SA trigger as can be. While actually shooting, I really can’t notice much difference compared to my P-07s.

As a sidebar, what are the recommended mods to a Shadow 2 trigger?

[Clusterfrack]

As a sidebar, what are the recommended mods to a Shadow 2 trigger?

CZ Shadow 2 Parts (Cajun Gun Works)
11.5# or 8.5# Hammer spring
Reduced power firing pin spring
Extended firing pin
Reduced power trigger return spring
CGW floating trigger pin

Optional: CGW reduced reach short reset trigger kit

[Redhat]

So now that my decision is made, anyone have good options for sights and extra magazines?

I've heard that P10C mags work in the P07.

[Clusterfrack]

So now that my decision is made, anyone have good options for sights and extra magazines?

I've heard that P10C mags work in the P07.

I like Night Fision sights quite a bit. My only complaint is they hit about 4" high at 25 yds if you use a center hold.
https://www.nightfision.com/product/...hts-for-cz-usa

P10C mags work perfectly, but they have a slightly thicker baseplate so you will probably want to carry the OEM mags for best concealment.
https://www.themagshack.com/shop/cz-...ound-magazine/