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Thread: Colorado PF’ers - HK P30 V1 LEM search

  1. #31
    Member Sauer Koch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCT125US View Post
    I think getting hands on is certainly an important part of the process. However, what feels good in the hand, does not always translate to measured performance. Based on what you have stated so far, you have done as much research and reading as possible, and now just need a sample in hand. May take some time, and all I can offer from Ohio is more observation and opinion.

    I had asked for your previous handgun experience, and with the list you provided, I have some general observations. Now, these are strictly my subjective observations as finding a counterpoint is pretty easy.

    Lookong over the list, certainly mostly striker fired, but a variety of guns. Not all Glocks have the exact same trigger and feel, as you know, so this should be beneficial. LEM seems to be a love / hate trigger. Again, in general, people who have a varied experience tend to do better with LEM. Where I see folks fall off the rails is when they grew up shooting a Glock, or any other one gun. It's not that LEM is necessarily bad, it's just different enough that it plays mental games. Games that can take time to play through and learn from. I have seen very experienced shooters give up on LEM because they could not reach a desired level of performance. The time to rewire was not worth it. One of my close friends who shoots 3 gun, borrowed my USP9c LEM and shot about 85% of me at a local match. Completely cold, without ever firing a single round from an LEM. My thinking there is that he consistently works with a variety of triggers and doesn't ride the reset and just works the trigger straight through.

    I have heard the LEM described as being like a 2 stage trigger. That may be a good description, but that is not how you want to work it. Constant motion, finish flat. Think of rowing a boat, you don't jam the oars in the water, pause, then jerk to the rear. It's a smooth, constant motion. However, some don't like the light takeup, followed by the wall. And this is where the spring chart comes in.

    I cut the following from another thread and modified for clarity:

    Carried a P30 v3 (da/sa), for about 4 years (and 85k rds). Went to a P30 v1 for about a year (8k rds), then a P2000 v2 (LEM) for about 2 years (9k rds), then a USP9c v7 (LEM) for 2 1/2 years (14k rds). Looks like I'm switching back to a P30 v1 for reasons.

    I prefer hammer fired guns, and HKs.

    Good luck in your search
    Excellent info there; lots of points made that can only be made after spending considerable time shooting an LEM trigger. Your comments should be a part of DB’s LEM thread here.

    After shooting a 226 & 229 (M11 A-1) almost exclusively, 1-2x/week, for 3yrs, switching to the HK LEM was not a big deal at all, just a minor adjustment was needed with the nuances of the LEM. Being comfortable/competent with a DA trigger goes a long way to making a relatively easy transition from DA to LEM. A SF shooter could do the same, but probably won’t, due to reasons that CCT125US noted above.

    This is probably a stretch, but mechanically, you could almost think of the P30 LEM, as a Glock with a Gadget. Aside from the long, lite, take up, the actual pull weight is pretty close to a Glock, and the hammer is the Gadget. ? But, the long reset and take-up seem to be the deal breaker for most who try it.

    At this point, my wife and I are both very happy with the V1 LEM.

  2. #32
    Member kjr_29's Avatar
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    So I found an HK P2000 Kompact LEM at Specialty in C Springs today. It wasn’t a light LEM but I have satisfied the search itch.

    It did not suck. Long pull and smooth but not what I was fully expecting. I could like it for sure - but not going to search all over for one.

    I did rent some striker fired a yesterday, Gen5 G19, FN 509 Tactical with a Vortex Red Dot, and Glock 20, just because I had a burning desire to hang on to a 10mm.

    The G19Gen5 was money, but it had a funky stippling. The 509T was pretty nice but nothing special compared to 19x and G45s I have shot. The G20 was a beast but I liked it a lot. SF grip would help and I am dead set on getting a G21 for backcountry (I liked the big bore Glock), don’t want to introduce 10mm ammo since I have a .45 ACP gun already. I’ll look at 185gr XTP +P loads in .45 and compare to 180gr 10mm ballistics but I think a deep penetrating bonded .45 is enough for what I will encounter in the CO backcountry.

    Anyway, I came away enamored with the red dot and how it worked for my eyes. Last experience with a red dot was two years ago shooting a suppressed FNX-45 at the ProForce booth, LVMPD SHOT Show event - but that was just 10 rounds outdoors on a brick of a gun. Not much time to experiment.

    At this point, I would rather jump off on some serious RMR training/learning than the LEM training/learning at the moment.


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  3. #33
    Re: P-07.

    Just curious, do you know if the P-07 that you ran was a version 1 (DUTY on front of slide) or version 2 (forward slide serrations)? The V2 is more like the P-09.
    David S.

  4. #34
    Member kjr_29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S. View Post
    Re: P-07.

    Just curious, do you know if the P-07 that you ran was a version 1 (DUTY on front of slide) or version 2 (forward slide serrations)? The V2 is more like the P-09.
    I have only test fired the PO9. I did find a PO7 used at another gun shop in my LEM search and it was a V2. Nice trigger.


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  5. #35
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    An aspect of this discussion that I find both interesting and a bit perplexing is the continued mention and seeming preoccupation with reset. A couple of thoughts:

    1. I simply don't find the reset distance on my HK P30L LEm to be that inordinately long; yeah, it's not as virtually instantaneous as on a Glock, but it's not like that on a revolver or a High Power where the reset is achieved only when the trigger is fully forward;

    2. My understanding is that it's not necessarily such a great idea to focus on firing from the reset point once it's immediately reached; concentration is better spent on other aspects of the shooting process regarding follow-up/repeated shots.

    Regarding LEM, the most important take-away for me was to understand the purpose and mechanical LEM process, and then modifying the trigger return/rebound spring to best suit MY specific perceived needs-I needed more constant tactile feedback and trigger resistance throughout the trigger pull, and preferred less of transition when reaching the break point; so for me (and with the assistance of many on p-f, but especially Coyote41, Dagga Boy and TooSixy on the HKPro forum and HK Tech Support (their input and assistance was invaluable). The upshot was that HK replaced my OEM Trigger Return/Rebound spring with the slightly heavier middle/medium weight spring, which made a significant difference and improvement for me; my V1 Light LEM was transformed into what I call V1.5 LEM.

    I'm quite satisfied with the LEM triggerpull distance and reset, which remain unchanged an unaffected by the TRS change.

    I think it's very important to know the philosophy behind LEM, how it mechanically works, and its operational characteristics, and a sufficient commitment to actual practice and use to be able to discern, analyze and quantify what's working and what needs improvement for you and your use with a LEM gun.

    For most, it's simply not going to be the fastest action with which you can achieve the quickest splits; that's not the point of it (but yes, when you get sufficiently dialed in with it, it can be shot very quickly and effectively).

    Best, Jon

  6. #36
    Member kjr_29's Avatar
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    Thanks Jon!


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  7. #37
    Member kjr_29's Avatar
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    Colorado PF’ers - HK P30 V1 LEM search

    Quote Originally Posted by CCT125US View Post
    I think getting hands on is certainly an important part of the process. However, what feels good in the hand, does not always translate to measured performance. Based on what you have stated so far, you have done as much research and reading as possible, and now just need a sample in hand. May take some time, and all I can offer from Ohio is more observation and opinion.

    I had asked for your previous handgun experience, and with the list you provided, I have some general observations. Now, these are strictly my subjective observations as finding a counterpoint is pretty easy.

    Lookong over the list, certainly mostly striker fired, but a variety of guns. Not all Glocks have the exact same trigger and feel, as you know, so this should be beneficial. LEM seems to be a love / hate trigger. Again, in general, people who have a varied experience tend to do better with LEM. Where I see folks fall off the rails is when they grew up shooting a Glock, or any other one gun. It's not that LEM is necessarily bad, it's just different enough that it plays mental games. Games that can take time to play through and learn from. I have seen very experienced shooters give up on LEM because they could not reach a desired level of performance. The time to rewire was not worth it. One of my close friends who shoots 3 gun, borrowed my USP9c LEM and shot about 85% of me at a local match. Completely cold, without ever firing a single round from an LEM. My thinking there is that he consistently works with a variety of triggers and doesn't ride the reset and just works the trigger straight through.

    I have heard the LEM described as being like a 2 stage trigger. That may be a good description, but that is not how you want to work it. Constant motion, finish flat. Think of rowing a boat, you don't jam the oars in the water, pause, then jerk to the rear. It's a smooth, constant motion. However, some don't like the light takeup, followed by the wall. And this is where the spring chart comes in.

    I cut the following from another thread and modified for clarity:

    Carried a P30 v3 (da/sa), for about 4 years (and 85k rds). Went to a P30 v1 for about a year (8k rds), then a P2000 v2 (LEM) for about 2 years (9k rds), then a USP9c v7 (LEM) for 2 1/2 years (14k rds). Looks like I'm switching back to a P30 v1 for reasons.

    I prefer hammer fired guns, and HKs.

    Good luck in your search
    Thread revival.

    Found a very lightly used P30sk V1 in a LGS yesterday, would be surprised if it had more than 200 rounds through it. Life is good.

    I did get the RMR host (never had it killed) and set it up with a Overwatch NP3 coated trigger bar, - connector, and Ny1 trigger spring, like that heavier weight so, the V4 spring maybe in the future.


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    Last edited by kjr_29; 02-17-2020 at 11:18 AM.

  8. #38
    Member kjr_29's Avatar
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    *milled not killed [emoji12]


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  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by kjr_29 View Post
    Thread revival.

    Found a very lightly used P30sk V1 in a LGS yesterday, would be surprised if it had more than 200 rounds through it. Life is good.

    I did get the RMR host (never had it killed) and set it up with a Overwatch NP3 coated trigger bar, - connector, and Ny1 trigger spring, like that heavier weight so, the V4 spring maybe in the future.


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    Did you find a coated trigger bar without a trigger?

  10. #40
    Member kjr_29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornstalker View Post
    Did you find a coated trigger bar without a trigger?
    No, have their trigger shoe as well. I never liked the lines on a G19 trigger shoe, and in my previous foray, swapped the G17 smooth trigger shoe in. I would guess, with the smooth NP3, plus Ny1, about 6-6.5lbs.


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