RFI - Defensive Spray

[fwrun]

Wife’s keychain model POM unit cracked last week near the ring and upwards towards the top of the unit. I had to remove it from her keychain, as the canister was no longer properly retained. I contacted POM about it and was informed they have a lifetime warranty on the exterior plastic. They sent a new lower half, as well as a surprise, a whole new POM keychain model. I guess it was to make up for the inconvenience, but it was a totally unexpected move.

[Guerrero]

^^^^Nice

In other news, it looks like Sabre Red (re-?)introduced a flip-top keychain model that I don't remember seeing before. Still no pocket/belt clip on it, though.

[RevolverRob]

FYI - If anyone is interested - ASP is currently outletting some of the Street Defender models about half the normal price at 26 bucks each - https://www.asp-usa.com/collections/personal-safety

[blues]

There's too many damned choices...resulting in analysis paralysis.

I may buy a small canister for both myself and the missus if I can ever decide which carries least obtrusively, with the least chance of malfunction and acceptable effectiveness.

For now my flashlight remains my "less lethal" option.

[RevolverRob]

There's too many damned choices...resulting in analysis paralysis.

I may buy a small canister for both myself and the missus if I can ever decide which carries least obtrusively, with the least chance of malfunction and acceptable effectiveness.

For now my flashlight remains my "less lethal" option.

The Key Defender has a profile about like a 3/4-sized mini-mag lite in length. In fact, the little removable mini-mag lite pocket clips fit it, so it can be clipped to the pocket. It has a flip-away safety so no concern of accidental discharge when carried in the pocket like a flashlight. My wife carries one in her pocket or purse. It's small enough there isn't a good excuse not to carry it. The downside is minimal range (~10 feet). There are also training cartridges for it, to aid in learning to draw and deploy the device. In my opinion, since the Spitfire went away, the ASP Defender series is the best choice to meet your criteria.

Of course, I do go bigger myself - what I carry right now is this: https://www.copsplus.com/sabre-sabre...delivery-spray - The H2O version is easier to decon if you accidentally hit yourself with it. Still effective as a 10% OC with 1.33% MC and it has a UV marking dye in it.

That said, this is a big canister of spray compared to an ASP Defender sized package. I usually just stow it in the pocket of my "shoot me" concealment vest. My three biggest threats I carry OC for are aggressive panhandlers, including people who may approach my vehicle and refuse to back away, aggressive dogs (especially at the dog park), and aggressive dog owners (especially at the dog park).

The latter two are actually my biggest concerns. I've not seen people act so irrationally about someone grabbing an aggressive animal as they do when you grab their "wonderful pooch". Poochy wouldn't hurt a fly as he grabs a hold of a smaller dog and tries to do his best imitation of a petulant child breaking a toy...And if you move Poochy out of the way, Poochy's owner, usually mom, seems to think she is entitled to harass and/or assault you for making sure neither your dog nor Poochy ended up getting a lethal injection.

[Cecil Burch]

IMO, right now POM is a definite no go.

I had the plastic crack on the unit I was testing for my daughter, and there have been at least 5 other incidents of similar breakage in a closed FB group I am in. If these cracks had all appeared after some ridiculous amount of pressure testing like trying to deploy in an entangled fight, then I would not be so concerned. I assume thin plastic to not regularly survive that level of abuse. However, in every single one of the above cases. the plastic failures came about through normal use. For example, on mine, the only stress there was to the unit was taking it out of a pocket at the end of the day and then putting it in a pocket of new pants the next morning. I am sorry, but failures there for a potential piece of emergency equipment is completely unacceptable.

Supposedly POM is "working on it", but it is unconscionable for a company to not have done a minimal and reasonable level of their own testing before releasing this to the public. I don't mind being a beta-tester for gear. I have done that a lot for holsters from different manufacturers for instance. But I knew in advance that I was to be a beta tester. It was not a sudden surprise down the road. The fact that this unit i had was earmarked for my daughter and it broke does not leave me with much warm and fuzzy feelings for this company.

Again, this is my opinion, and everyone needs to make their own choices, but until POM goes out of their way to prove they have truly fixed this, I am sticking to the proven Sabre stuff (as does the rest of my loved ones).

[BillSWPA]

The Key Defender has a profile about like a 3/4-sized mini-mag lite in length. In fact, the little removable mini-mag lite pocket clips fit it, so it can be clipped to the pocket. It has a flip-away safety so no concern of accidental discharge when carried in the pocket like a flashlight. My wife carries one in her pocket or purse. It's small enough there isn't a good excuse not to carry it. The downside is minimal range (~10 feet). There are also training cartridges for it, to aid in learning to draw and deploy the device. In my opinion, since the Spitfire went away, the ASP Defender series is the best choice to meet your criteria.

Of course, I do go bigger myself - what I carry right now is this: https://www.copsplus.com/sabre-sabre...delivery-spray - The H2O version is easier to decon if you accidentally hit yourself with it. Still effective as a 10% OC with 1.33% MC and it has a UV marking dye in it.

That said, this is a big canister of spray compared to an ASP Defender sized package. I usually just stow it in the pocket of my "shoot me" concealment vest. My three biggest threats I carry OC for are aggressive panhandlers, including people who may approach my vehicle and refuse to back away, aggressive dogs (especially at the dog park), and aggressive dog owners (especially at the dog park).

The latter two are actually my biggest concerns. I've not seen people act so irrationally about someone grabbing an aggressive animal as they do when you grab their "wonderful pooch". Poochy wouldn't hurt a fly as he grabs a hold of a smaller dog and tries to do his best imitation of a petulant child breaking a toy...And if you move Poochy out of the way, Poochy's owner, usually mom, seems to think she is entitled to harass and/or assault you for making sure neither your dog nor Poochy ended up getting a lethal injection.

All very good commentary, but the range of the Key Defender is more like 5 feet. The Street Defender is likely to be a bit more.

I have used a 2AA mini Maglight clip on my wife’s Key Defender.

I can often find room in a pocket for a Key Defender when I could not find room for something else.

The safety latch on. Key Defender is a bit slow to deploy, and I would plan on potentially using a Key Defender as an impact weapon first, creating the opportunity to use the spray.

The limited range and amount of spray of a Key Defender and ability to use it as an impact weapon make me more likely to recommend it for an individual with at least some training. For the untrained, I recommend a Sabre unit with greater range and more spray, figuring the use as an impact weapon is less likely.





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[RevolverRob]

All very good commentary, but the range of the Key Defender is more like 5 feet. The Street Defender is likely to be a bit more.

I have used a 2AA mini Maglight clip on my wife’s Key Defender.

I can often find room in a pocket for a Key Defender when I could not find room for something else.

The safety latch on. Key Defender is a bit slow to deploy, and I would plan on potentially using a Key Defender as an impact weapon first, creating the opportunity to use the spray.

The limited range and amount of spray of a Key Defender and ability to use it as an impact weapon make me more likely to recommend it for an individual with at least some training. For the untrained, I recommend a Sabre unit with greater range and more spray, figuring the use as an impact weapon is less likely.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hmm, the training cartridges in my wife’s give you “end of the car” distance and our car is about 12-13’ long. The safety latch benefits from a little texturing. Either texture it with your soldering iron or grip tape.

The thing I don’t like about the Defender series besides limited range is the cone of spray, as opposed to stream. I definitely prefer stream, for distance, accuracy, and for less chance of hitting yourself with it.

[BillSWPA]

Hmm, the training cartridges in my wife’s give you “end of the car” distance and our car is about 12-13’ long. The safety latch benefits from a little texturing. Either texture it with your soldering iron or grip tape.

The thing I don’t like about the Defender series besides limited range is the cone of spray, as opposed to stream. I definitely prefer stream, for distance, accuracy, and for less chance of hitting yourself with it.

The last time my wife and I used a training cartridge was well over a decade ago. Perhaps they have improved?

When a heat cartridge is past its expiration date, I have typically discharged it to empty it before disposing of it. I would normally see about 5 feet (or less) of cone. Perhaps it had lost some pressure by that point in time?

Regardless, I think our differences in results mean I should re-test to confirm or disprove my results.

[RevolverRob]

The last time my wife and I used a training cartridge was well over a decade ago. Perhaps they have improved?

When a heat cartridge is past its expiration date, I have typically discharged it to empty it before disposing of it. I would normally see about 5 feet (or less) of cone. Perhaps it had lost some pressure by that point in time?

Regardless, I think our differences in results mean I should re-test to confirm or disprove my results.

Likewise

I’ll order some test cartridges and some fresh heat.