(Out of my lane)Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
I'm not sure a fogger is a good idea for "CCW". I wonder if they make something similar in a stream or gel.
(Out of my lane)
I'm not sure a fogger is a good idea for "CCW". I wonder if they make something similar in a stream or gel.
David S.
If I remember correctly @Chuck Haggard has discussed using a fogger in the CCW as an areal denial role, i.e. fogging a hallway to make an escape during an active shooter event.
Did you catch the part about the first 180JHP bouncing off the skull of the would-be biter?
Keith
Funnily enough, over the weekend I *almost* had a need to test the effectiveness of OC on a large dog. I was out on a bike ride with my two daughters, 9 and 11, when a large malamute looking dog, unkept, drooling, came out of a hedgerow along the front of a house. My older daughter was in the lead and stopped her bike, I was in the middle and followed suit, and youngest stopped behind me. Oldest was actually bitten, which her sister saw, a couple of weeks ago (separate story) but the older one is a dog nut and didn't seem bothered too much by the new dog, but the younger who witnessed the last bite started getting visibly stressed out. Having no OC I had left the house with my NAA .22mag in the pocket, so I palmed that and kept talking to the kids in a happy voice, trying to stay between youngest and the dog, largely to no avail due to their unpredictable movements and dealing with bikes. The dog *seemed* friendly enough and things ended without incident, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't weighing in my mind for a moment if it would be more traumatic for my kid(s) to see me put 5 in the dog's dome or her go into some kind of shock as she stood there almost hyperventilating.
That got me thinking about this thread, thinking about every problem nail because:hammer, but also wondering if I wouldn't wind up pissing off a larger dog like that with the oc to the point that it may identify the point of pain as me.
In any event, the kids got a major earful about responsibility, who's "fault" it was that 11 got bit a few weeks ago, and my general opinion of people that say things like "it's not my fault".
Either way, I'm clicking "submit" on a shopping cart full of options from Amazon today, including a cheap 26" t-ball bat to put in the shotgun scabbard when we're carting around the 'hood.
@rob_s, glad that worked out ok. When little kids are involved, the stakes are so much higher. When our girls were small, I was ruthless about people’s off leash dogs running up.
“Call your dog”
“Don’t worry he’s friendly!”
“Call your dog. It can’t be near my kids.”
I haven’t experienced or heard about OC enraging a dog further than it already is. I’m curious if anyone has info on that.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
I’ve never heard or seen that it enrages dogs. Most of my experience is it just doesn’t effect them like it does humans. What I have seen is the mist/fog stopping or diverting them. But dogs see things differently. Smoke or mist may appear to be a wall to them. That’s one of the things we expose our working dogs to. Our gas house with a decoy in a bite suit inside. A hot/burning gas CS canister. They get exposed to gas and “smoke” at the same time. They have to go through the “smoke” to find and bite the decoy. CS doesn’t stop them and they show little effects from it.
Here’s a good read from a notable K9 expert/trainer Bob Eden about exposing working dogs to OC. He notes the dog seems effected and bites harder when sprayed. Afterwards dog tries to get OC off him. Then an area search is done and the dog locates the decoy and bites the sleeve
https://www.policek9.com/html/oc.html
I’ve seen video but I can’t find it of the area search after the K9 was exposed to OC.
Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.
David, that's actually a fire extinguisher type device intended for riots and hostile crowds. Saber does produce a variety of products better suited for self defense in both stream and gel. That said, I organized and ran the OC program at my previous employer and still maintain instructor certification. For most self-defense applications (law enforcement/security or citizen), cone-shaped sprays are generally better. One has a much greater chance for immediate effects on the threat, be it two or four-legged.
Some may have a need for stream if deployment at longer distances is needed. Gel should be reserved for environments where cross-contamination would pose significant problems (health care, corrections, large crowded venues where stampedes are a possibility).
I had the opportunity to use it yesterday on two dogs. 0800 I was taking our puppy for a walk when I walked past my neighbors house and his two pitbulls came charging down the driveway. I had the Sabre Red MK6 out and effectively sprayed both of them in the eyes. They both immediately retreated and we continued on our walk. (I was really surprised that they did and fully expected to have to shoot them). When I returned, both dogs were not outside any longer.( I have zero communication with the neighbor as he is a member of an outlaw biker club and he makes sure to not interact with me at all). I did call the S.O. to take a report and to tell the guy to keep his dogs tethered as the next incident may not have favorable outcome for his dogs. The Deputy said both dogs faces were red from the dye and the owner subsequently felt the residual effects of being exposed to the spray (hahahahaha). Side note, we live in the country and have no laws or ordinances for dogs.
www.hero911.org
Hero911 when seconds save lives.
@Crusader8207, Fuckyeah!
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
I know I don't need to say it, but be careful and safe, brother. There are few people I trust less in the world.
There's nothing civil about this war.
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