The Shit Storm that is the NRA Today & How We Got Here

[Beast17]

Have I quoted Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy yet? Because this is a textbook example of that law in action!

This is kind of off-topic, but I couldn't help replying. I'm not a famous author, so this never gained public traction, but I beat Jerry by about a decade and a half.

BITD, circa 1996, I was working at DEA and a DEA buddy of mine was temporarily living at a monastery. I visited him and ended up in a conversation with the Abbot. I was bitching about the admin/bureaucratic side of DEA and he says "that sounds a lot like the Catholic church." We eventually came up with a theory about all organizations that is very similar to Pournelle's Law.

Grunt members of an organization are either good at the mission or they aren't. Grunt members of the organization either believe in the mission or they don't. If they are good at the mission and believe in it, then 99% of them stay at the grunt level and continue to do the work of the organization efficiently and effectively. Management is a different game, so the members who suck at the actual mission promote to get into a different job, that they may or may not be good at. Members who don't believe in the mission promote because they just want to be a boss of something and they don't care what. Consequently, almost the entirety of any organization's leadership will be composed of people who either suck at the mission or don't believe in it.

Maybe my retirement career ought to be writing books...

[BCG]

Much like the recalls of Colorado legislators over the new gun laws in 2013. That required more than just "conservative Republicans" to accomplish.

From Wikipedia:

The Colorado recall election of 2013 was a successful effort to recall two Democratic members of the Colorado Senate following their support of new gun control legislation. Initially four politicians were targeted, but sufficient signatures could only be obtained for State Senate President John Morse and State Senator Angela Giron.

A court hearing resulted in the election being conducted in-person rather than by mail, which also led to Giron complaining of voter suppression.

In the election, held on September 10, 2013, both Morse and Giron were recalled by the voters of their districts and replaced with Republicans George Rivera and Bernie Herpin, respectively. It was the first time a state legislator in Colorado had been recalled. In the 2014 Senate elections 13 months later, both Rivera and Herpin were defeated by their Democratic opponents.

Giron and Democratic National Committee Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz claimed that the recall defeat was due to voter suppression. The Denver Post disputed this, saying that the result wasn't caused by voter suppression but the fact that more people showed up to vote against Giron than to vote for her. Gessler said that the Democrats fared worse where more people turned out. Wasserman Schultz also stated that the money spent by the NRA and the Koch brothers made it impossible for Democrats to win.

Charles C. W. Cooke, writing in the National Review Online, stated that it was a grassroots effort, triggered by the perception that the two senators were not listening to the concerns of the public. Ashby Jones of The Wall Street Journal viewed it as a major win for the NRA and a "stinging defeat" for Mayor Bloomberg.

In the November 2014 Senate elections 13 months later, both Rivera and Herpin were defeated by large margins by their Democratic opponents. Rivera lost to State Representative Leroy Garcia and Herpin lost to State Representative Michael Merrifield, a noted gun control advocate. Rivera lost by 22,814 votes (45.06%) to 27,813 (54.94%) and Herpin lost by 14,978 votes (41.52%) to 18,815 (52.16%). Despite reclaiming the two seats, the Democrats lost their overall majority in the Colorado Senate.

Governor John Hickenlooper (Democrat) was also re-elected in the 2014 general election, 49% to 46%.

The Democrats regained control of the Colorado State Senate in 2018.

[DMF13]

You understand that my point is that, when it comes to preserving, and advancing gun rights, it should be the goal to have the elected officials of BOTH parties willing to support gun rights, or at least be worried acting in an "anti-gun" way will have consequences, in the form of lost jobs?

The way to achieve that is for those in the "gun culture" to be inclusive of "pro-gun" "moderates," and "liberals."

The information you posted shows you can't advance, or even preserve, gun rights in Colorado, unless you get plenty of "moderates," and "liberals," to care enough about firearms rights, that the elected Democrats have to worry about being voted out, if they are "anti-gun."

[BCG]

the goal to have the elected officials of BOTH parties willing to support gun rights, or at least be worried acting in an "anti-gun" way will have consequences, in the form of lost jobs?

In early 2014, I had the chance to meet Tim Knight, the organizer of the recall effort.

I asked him for advice regarding my advocacy on another (non-gun related) issue. He told me that that politicians don't listen to their constituents unless they believe their job is danger.

[BCG]

You understand that my point is that, when it comes to preserving, and advancing gun rights, it should be the goal to have the elected officials of BOTH parties willing to support gun rights

Back when I was active in the Colorado State Shooting Association - the official state association of the National Rifle Association - we had some pro-gun Democrat candidates come speak at one of our meetings during the 2002 election cycle. I can't remember their names.

One or two of our members got upset that we had invited Democrats, citing something about gay marriage.

Fortunately, most of the folks in the room shut that down, reminding the complainers that CSSA is a single-issue organization.

Although a Life Member (of both the CSSA and NRA), I haven't been to a meeting in about 20 years. So I don't know if that attitude still exists or not.

[Totem Polar]

In my experience, this is really an NRA problem, and not a wider gun culture problem. Hell, I’m one of those pro-gun moderates/liberals that we are talking about, in most things. I was a dem back in the Foley years, and a majority of my social circles—including regional political figures—are very liberal. From that perspective, I’ve found the “gun culture” to be inordinately live and let live, going all the way back to my college years—when I was most def a liberal. So long as you shoot, I shoot, and we believe in the right to self defense (and maybe, say, the related rights of free thought/speech/assembly), we can get along. It’s not that hard, nor should it be.

This place is at most times a good example. There are certainly people here who are at polar opposite sides of several hot button social issues, but we all get along when it comes to the fundamental P-F stuff.

The tent doesn’t have to be “bigger,” rather, it just needs to be “moar gunny.”

JMO.


(PS. fuck WLP)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

FYI - Truth About Guns had a link to a comment on the NRA's lack of enthusiasm for the 2nd Amend. rights of black people.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/co...-black-people/
https://twitter.com/i/status/1650956649140482070

I'm sure the NRA might have a defense of this analysis (which I think has some validity). I note that efforts in the past (like in the 1920's) are nice but not really relevant. That was then, this is now.

[High Cross]

In early 2014, I had the chance to meet Tim Knight, the organizer of the recall effort.

I asked him for advice regarding my advocacy on another (non-gun related) issue. He told me that that politicians don't listen to their constituents unless they believe their job is danger.

Thats exactly why I think term limits will not serve gun rights interests.

[Borderland]

This is kind of off-topic, but I couldn't help replying. I'm not a famous author, so this never gained public traction, but I beat Jerry by about a decade and a half.

BITD, circa 1996, I was working at DEA and a DEA buddy of mine was temporarily living at a monastery. I visited him and ended up in a conversation with the Abbot. I was bitching about the admin/bureaucratic side of DEA and he says "that sounds a lot like the Catholic church." We eventually came up with a theory about all organizations that is very similar to Pournelle's Law.

Grunt members of an organization are either good at the mission or they aren't. Grunt members of the organization either believe in the mission or they don't. If they are good at the mission and believe in it, then 99% of them stay at the grunt level and continue to do the work of the organization efficiently and effectively. Management is a different game, so the members who suck at the actual mission promote to get into a different job, that they may or may not be good at. Members who don't believe in the mission promote because they just want to be a boss of something and they don't care what. Consequently, almost the entirety of any organization's leadership will be composed of people who either suck at the mission or don't believe in it.

Maybe my retirement career ought to be writing books...

That's how it worked where I was employed for 30 years. I was a grunt. I believed in the mission and was good at my job. Most of the lower level supervisors were people who couldn't do the work at the grunt level. A few believed in the mission and a few didn't. The ones that didn't were constantly undermining the efforts of the grunts. I was successful in getting at least one fired.

[GJM]

Reading through the bias, there are some bad facts for the NRA here, especially the decline in membership.

https://dnyuz.com/2024/01/02/lapierr...end-his-reign/