Last Of The Breed: Marine Corps M45A1

[Borderland]

Special Operators are Special and we can afford to buy them the best equipment. You can buy a lot of tuned 1911s for cost of one precision munition. Special Operations 1911 would be "budget dust". Not saying that 1911s are the best solution just saying that cost would not be the real overriding issue (might be the excuse though)

Yeah, not your regular troop is it? I understand the point-of-the-spear analogy.

I was reading that a large number of SO actually preferred Glocks. That doesn't surprise me because of weight and capacity.

I'm always surprised by military priority with congress appropriations. Having been in the military and seeing some of the hardware they buy, a pistol is a wood pencil in the general scheme of things.

I'm all on board with buying whatever you need to shoot the Mujahideen.

[Tango]

The cost to manufacture 1911's will be it's doom in a military application. I think I read someplace that those MEUSOC 1911's cost the military around 1K each. A Glock would cost the military half that much and a Sig less than that.

The 1911 will not be issued in masses ala WWII due to the cost. It remains and will remain in the holsters of specialized military units because at that level, cost is not as relevant. A 12 man team deploying to XYZ has plenty of leeway in preparing for that deployment. If they feel an order for 1911s from a specified manufacturer is required, then it gets done. Yes, money matters but at that amount, it isn't going to move the needle on ounce.

[JSGlock34]

Yes and no.

SOCOM procures and issues the Glock 19 (type classified as the Mk26). Almost all affiliated units (USASOC, MARSOC, NSW, AFSOC) have transitioned to this sidearm.

SOCOM procures gear when it fulfills a requirement or capability that the base service equipment (in this case the M9) does not. Will SOCOM continue to procure the Glock when the SIG M17/18 will be available from the force provider at no added cost? Perhaps. SOF budgets have swelled over the past two decades but will spending extra for a Glock when SIGs are readily available make sense if the defense budget declines? We will see. The most recent appropriation already reduced SOCOM’s procurement budget.

The remaining 1911s in service with the USMC are predominantly in Force Reconnaissance units, and some Military Police SRTs. There are not SOCOM organizations and do not have access to the Glock via MFP-11 funds. MARSOC already turned in their 1911s. Whether Force Reconnaissance does so when the M18 becomes readily available remains to be seen.

Still 110 years in military service? Long live the 1911!

[Tango]

Yeah, not your regular troop is it? I understand the point-of-the-spear analogy.

I was reading that a large number of SO actually preferred Glocks. That doesn't surprise me because of weight and capacity.

I'm always surprised by military priority with congress appropriations. Having been in the military and seeing some of the hardware they buy, a pistol is a wood pencil in the general scheme of things.

I'm all on board with buying whatever you need to shoot the Mujahideen.

Indeed, what is needed to shoot the Mujahideen gets ordered.

Plenty of guys like the Glock, plenty of guys like the 1911. We haven't even discussed Sig or HK!!! Overall, in some areas, it is, "players choice".

[Tango]

Yes and no.

SOCOM procures and issues the Glock 19 (type classified as the Mk26). Almost all affiliated units (USASOC, MARSOC, NSW, AFSOC) have transitioned to this sidearm.

SOCOM procures gear when it fulfills a requirement or capability that the base service equipment (in this case the M9) does not. Will SOCOM continue to procure the Glock when the SIG M17/18 will be available from the force provider at no added cost? Perhaps. SOF budgets have swelled over the past two decades but will spending extra for a Glock when SIGs are readily available make sense if the defense budget declines? We will see. The most recent appropriation already reduced SOCOM’s procurement budget.

The remaining 1911s in service with the USMC are predominantly in Force Reconnaissance units, and some Military Police SRTs. There are not SOCOM organizations and do not have access to the Glock via MFP-11 funds. MARSOC already turned in their 1911s. Whether Force Reconnaissance does so when the M18 becomes readily available remains to be seen.

Still 110 years in military service? Long live the 1911!

Very well written and good information on the funding stream. A few of us discussed the M17/M18 and its effects on the armory and procurement a while back.

For quite some time, the procurement argument for a Glock, over a M9 or M1911 has been hinged in certain ways on.. Striker Fired, Polymer, High Capacity, 9MM. That tact for the buying of Glocks has worked, up until now. The M17/M18 does everything the Glock does, just as well, in the same, "polymer, striker fired, high capcity" sense. Therefore, to a certain degree, over time, the Glock becomes superfluous. As they wear out, or need replacement, the M17/M18 will be readily available and almost everyone in the unit will have cut their teeth on the Sigs. In a way, the Glock is an old man's gun!!

As you stated, budget priorities are real and big Army has plunked down a ton of cash on the M17/M18 and SUPPORT for it.

We all laughed because we see a scenario where the armory has 9MM M17/M18s for your 9MM, high capacity, polymer scenarios and........1911s for when 45ACP and single action is desired. That made us all chuckle, as the Immortal 1911 in 2021, continues to have no replacement.

[Borderland]

That made us all chuckle, as the Immortal 1911 in 2021, continues to have no replacement.

Everyone and everything can be replaced. !911 should have died with the US military 20 plus years ago. I have several but I also have other 45 ACP pistols for comparison. The HK45 is the replacement for the 1911. It just never made it into the US military arsenal because they decided they wanted a 9mm pistol. I have nothing against 9mm. I have three for carry and SD, so I agree with the military's decision. 45 ACP is dead as a combat pistol.

[Tango]

Everyone and everything can be replaced. !911 should have died with the US military 20 plus years ago. I have several but I also have other 45 ACP pistols for comparison. The HK45 is the replacement for the 1911. It just never made it into the US military arsenal because they decided they wanted a 9mm pistol. I have nothing against 9mm. I have three for carry and SD, so I agree with the military's decision. 45 ACP is dead as a combat pistol.

The HK45 is a nice gun. If it was the 1911's replacement, then it would have replaced the 1911. 9MM has indeed become King but the 1911 and 45ACP continues to ride in holsters. We've also seen the 1911 and 9MM grow massively over the past 5 years.

[Borderland]

The HK45 is a nice gun. If it was the 1911's replacement, then it would have replaced the 1911. 9MM has indeed become King but the 1911 and 45ACP continues to ride in holsters. We've also seen the 1911 and 9MM grow massively over the past 5 years.

OK, you win. 1911 is the future. 9mm made it happen.

[Tango]

OK, you win. 1911 is the future. 9mm made it happen.

Maybe some wires got crossed here.

M17/M18: Is the present and future sidearm for the US Military overall. It has a bright future and one that may see overall acceptance by JSOC units.

9MM: The go to round now. Good round, solid round. 10 years from now we could be shooting 38 Super for some odd reason, but 9 is King currently. The acceptance of 9MM, caused the 1911 community to build better 9MM offerings. That is good for everyone all around.

Glocks: Good guns, I happen to carry one. Currently the favorite flavor for JSOC and has performed well. How it fairs in the future, against the M17/M18 for space in the JSOC arsenal remains to be seen.

1911: Good gun, also happen to carry one. Continues to serve and fill a role. At this time, there doesn't seem to be a "replacement". Nor do I see $$$ being spent to find a replacement. So, it will continue to serve but in the reduced numbers of specialized units.

[TGS]

@JSGlock34

How is the Cerakote finish holding up on the commercial guns? Regardless of Colt switching over production to the Decobond finish, was the cerakote "fixed" after the initial batch that got returned to Colt?

I guess I should ask...if I pick up one of these and it happens to be a cerakoted commercial model, should it be okay to shoot occasionally as a range toy? Or should I really go for the decobond if I plan on shooting it at all, even minimally?