Last Of The Breed: Marine Corps M45A1

[Trooper224]

I have really been wanting to try a 9mm double stack 1911. The capacity is there, and I have heard the new STI line is really reliable but I have been wondering if they require the same maintenance intervals as a traditional single stack.

I resisted 1911s in 9mm for years because they were finicky and unreliable. That seems to have been overcome. Unfortunately, by the time that had been accomplished I was done with the 1911 as a carry gun. So while guns like the STIs look cool, I personally have no desire to drop that kind of money on a gun just for funzzies. A few weeks ago, a young Deputy US Marshal on the SOG unit was proudly showing me is STI with an RMR mounted. While he was sharing all of the stereotypical reasons why he chose a 1911 style pistol, I just bit my tung and enjoyed looking at a cool gun. Those things sure looked cool in John Wick 3 though.

[JonInWA]

I don’t think I’d go G19 if restricted to 10 rounds. Maybe things have improved, but my experience with neutered Glock mags haven’t been 100%. I know others on here have experienced the same. Not saying I’d go 1911 either.

That's a very fair point. While the point of my hypothesis was that I'd prefer a G19 even with a neutered magazine capacity, I'd forgotten about the checkered reputation of the OEM 10 round magazines; so I'd amend my thinking to that I'd probably still prefer a G19 with neutered capacity if, and only if the magazines were reliable. Thanks, Bucky.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

Glock 19s might be point and shoot guns, but that doesn't automatically translate into being a point and hit gun. Simple doesn't equal easy.

1911s have almost universally been the pistol that new shooters, especially women, shoot the best with the least amount of training. It's been my experience that mastering that super complex 1911 thumb safety is easier than dealing with the width and unforgiving trigger pull of a Glock.

The plastic guns are logical if you wanna carry a whole buncha ammo on the cheap, but there are still very legitimate reasons that make a 1911 a viable sidearm.

I certainly don't deny that there are viable legitimate reasons and niches for 1911s, but I think you're missing the thrust of my thoughts. It's not that the controls on a 1911 are particularly difficult to master, but they do take some familiarization and experience with; my example was that if I needed to provide a gun to a non-dedicated shooter, that a Glock (or similar) firearm would likely be easier for them to situationally use.

I've heard from some very qualified instructors that a contemporary pistol that female students prefer is the HK VP9, not only due to it's inherent quality and accuracy, but also do to the charging handles on the slide that make it easier to manipulate the slide reciprocation when necessary, something that many with reduced upper body strength find challenging on an auto pistol.

Best, Jon

[Rc217]

I resisted 1911s in 9mm for years because they were finicky and unreliable. That seems to have been overcome. Unfortunately, by the time that had been accomplished I was done with the 1911 as a carry gun. So while guns like the STIs look cool, I personally have no desire to drop that kind of money on a gun just for funzzies. A few weeks ago, a young Deputy US Marshal on the SOG unit was proudly showing me is STI with an RMR mounted. While he was sharing all of the stereotypical reasons why he chose a 1911 style pistol, I just bit my tung and enjoyed looking at a cool gun. Those things sure looked cool in John Wick 3 though.

Like the earlier post regarding recon units bringing armorers and having to have two guns per shooter, I wonder if all of that is necessary for a 2011 style gun to continue to run through higher round counts. I feel like the extra level of maintenenace and needed end user dedication to the gun is mainly what killed the M45A1, not lack of capacity or weight. The STI apparently can compete with others on capacity and reliability, but does the end user need to be able to be their own armorer?

[Bobert1035]

Like the earlier post regarding recon units bringing armorers and having to have two guns per shooter, I wonder if all of that is necessary for a 2011 style gun to continue to run through higher round counts. I feel like the extra level of maintenenace and needed end user dedication to the gun is mainly what killed the M45A1, not lack of capacity or weight. The STI apparently can compete with others on capacity and reliability, but does the end user need to be able to be their own armorer?

Anecdotal suggestions heard in a quite a few P&S Podcasts claim that Roland's unit (whatever that was) had STIs in 40 and an armorer deployed with them to keep them running. I have no direct knowledge, just what I gathered from the discussions; hopefully someone with closer ties could chime in.

[M2CattleCo]

Like the earlier post regarding recon units bringing armorers and having to have two guns per shooter, I wonder if all of that is necessary for a 2011 style gun to continue to run through higher round counts. I feel like the extra level of maintenenace and needed end user dedication to the gun is mainly what killed the M45A1, not lack of capacity or weight. The STI apparently can compete with others on capacity and reliability, but does the end user need to be able to be their own armorer?

The same things on a 1911 that require an armorer exist on a 2011 with the addition of magazines that are generally not as good as single stack mags.

Don't forget that they bring spares and armorers for all of the other weapons too.

[TC215]

Anecdotal suggestions heard in a quite a few P&S Podcasts claim that Roland's unit (whatever that was) had STIs in 40 and an armorer deployed with them to keep them running. I have no direct knowledge, just what I gathered from the discussions; hopefully someone with closer ties could chime in.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...stols-auction/

[UniSol]

As for Force Recon using the 1911, every single dude I've met from Force who then didn't later leave for MARSOC, task force or OGA was very much traditional Marine Corps mindset, and it was apparent that they had a culture of looking down on the more loose/less militaristic cultured units like MARSOC. @TiroFijo, the 1911 was a big oogie cookie for Marines, plain and simple. The same reason firefighters in the northeast US still like to do internal operations wearing an antique leather hat instead of a modern, objectively more safe and more comfortable dome piece, and the same reason you can still see cops in some US locales wearing a six-shooter with spare ammo carried in individual loops.



No disrespect to Mr. Haley, but the pointiest of the pointy tip of the spear units with the highest levels of direct action/in-extremis hostage rescue missions, and the highest probability of using pistols for low probability shots, have all migrated away from the 1911.

I was gonna disagree with you here, but I left the USMC/Force for Army SF (not a long tabber), so...............I can think of many, many former Recon bubbas I have run into on the SF side, a couple that are SEALs, and others that moved on to MARSOC. I would say, from memory, it was at least 50/50 guys who embraced and really pushed the SOF culture and then the old guard who were more traditional Marine Corps mindset. I showed up to what was 5th Force Recon BN at the time from BRC with a high and tight and a pair of regular green silky USMC PT shorts, and that was thrashed out of me quickly. By the time I left I was dual-cool, long nasty hair, and gunny roll sleeves.

No arguments on the 1911 one way or the other. There was a time when you could have still argued for the 1911 being around for the IHR niche, but time marches on. And let's not forget that the M45A1 didn't just show up as the first 1911 since the olden-days. The MEUSOC 1911 has been around the whole time.

[Jeep]

[QUOTE=UniSol;900338]I. By the time I left I was dual-cool, long nasty hair . . . /QUOTE]

So this thread has me thinking about a few, only very loosely related, thing things:

1) How long will it take before beards and long nasty hair give way to high and tight haircuts among the cool guys the next time we fight in a place covered with jungles and monsoon rains? My experience living in the deep swamps of Eglin AFB has me wondering the benefits of long, nasty hair in those kinds of environments.

2) Glock 19s do pretty well in the rain. 1911's tend to rust unless they are freshly parked.

3) For those living in Communist-controlled states, Magpul 10-round Glock 19 mags do pretty well in my experience.

4) But if you are going to carry a 10-round pistol and aren't in the jungle (or in the swamps at Eglin) and want some old-style cool, a 1911 in .38 Super isn't a bad choice (though your ammunition cost will go up and it is a bit heavy to carry).

5) And most importantly, how do we get more MR-73's imported into the US?

[UniSol]

[QUOTE=Jeep;900441]

I. By the time I left I was dual-cool, long nasty hair . . . /QUOTE]

So this thread has me thinking about a few, only very loosely related, thing things:

1) How long will it take before beards and long nasty hair give way to high and tight haircuts among the cool guys the next time we fight in a place covered with jungles and monsoon rains? My experience living in the deep swamps of Eglin AFB has me wondering the benefits of long, nasty hair in those kinds of environments.

2) Glock 19s do pretty well in the rain. 1911's tend to rust unless they are freshly parked.

3) For those living in Communist-controlled states, Magpul 10-round Glock 19 mags do pretty well in my experience.

4) But if you are going to carry a 10-round pistol and aren't in the jungle (or in the swamps at Eglin) and want some old-style cool, a 1911 in .38 Super isn't a bad choice (though your ammunition cost will go up and it is a bit heavy to carry).

5) And most importantly, how do we get more MR-73's imported into the US?

I spent a fair amount of time in the Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand, etc. And Okinawa. I would definitely rather have a beard just for mosquito interference. And long hair is always better than a high and tight. I never really did any VBSS work, but I don't remember the platoons that did ever complaining about the 1911s in an amphib environment....but, different times, different expectations.

And yeah, Eglin swamps are NASTY. I remember spending the whole night doing "land nav" without ever touching ground. I think it had rained for a week prior.