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Thread: Combative training or martial arts for kids

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Whitlock View Post

    Not just combatives, though. I recall having breakfast at a hotel on a roadtrip, along with a traveling girls sports team....IIRC, it was soccer.....but a coach and some parents were talking about a number of 14-15 year old girls having reconstructive surgery for blown out knees and such. I have the distinct impression that the risks are much higher on the hardcore competition circuit than from class participation.

    Absolutely. Having had a son who did club lacrosse all through high school, and a daughter that did basketball, soccer, and track, and both of them did BJJ (my son started at 4 and my daughter at 10), I can tell you the incidence of severe injury was exponentially greater in the sports outside of BJJ. During the years my kids were in the kids BJJ class, there was not one child who ever missed training due to an injury suffered in BJJ - not just mine, but literally no other kid in the group - , even when they competed. The same could not be said for the other sports. Seeing the number of 15/15/16 year olds go down with ACL injuries - especially in lacrosse and basketball - was stunning.
    Last edited by Cecil Burch; 07-08-2019 at 10:39 AM.
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  2. #22
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    Yeah my high school had athletic trainers and physical therapists at the sidelines of many games. As a student, I took an athletic training class and we were taught how to do a lachman and anterior drawer test to identify blown ACLs and a lot of the students of that class would attend athletic events. Compared to wrestling, the basketball and football programs had far more injuries. Never went to a rugby game but those guys and gals beat the fuck out of each other and I heard an interview with John Danaher that he really fucked his leg up doing rugby before he ever went into BJJ.

    Of note, cheerleaders often wound up with a ton of pretty nasty injuries and almost all of them suffered repetitive strain injuries.

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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Whitlock View Post
    Not just combatives, though. I recall having breakfast at a hotel on a roadtrip, along with a traveling girls sports team....IIRC, it was soccer.....but a coach and some parents were talking about a number of 14-15 year old girls having reconstructive surgery for blown out knees and such. I have the distinct impression that the risks are much higher on the hardcore competition circuit than from class participation.

    I don't know anything about kiddie BJJ classes, but I have to question the motivation and purpose for them. I know a lot of places used to offer "pre-karate" and that never made much sense to me either. They're not learning any practical or functional skills. And if the intent is to build a foundation through the guise of play, why? What's the benefit that you can't get elsewhere in a more positive and safer environment where the kid learns a more useful skill? Even if the kids classes are conducted safely, where does it ultimately lead? Teenagers and college age kids are often extremely reckless and don't always fully grasp the immediate risks and future consequences of their actions.

    Parents have to realize how much influence they have on the thinking of their children and sometimes question and analyze the reasons behind their own actions and motivations. Plus peer pressure is real and applies just as much to adults as it does to kids. We see the same group thought dynamic in politics, on gun forums and in martial arts styles and organizations where people are very much influenced, if not unknowingly indoctrinated to accept the groups opinions as fact and their views as being healthy and normal even if they're clearly not to those outside of the group. Just look at the Gracie family or the latest fitness trend that is crossfit. What if the child is extremely talented, where it does it go from there? Adults choosing to do something of their own free will is one thing, but influencing, coercing or directly forcing a child into something that isn't healthy, constructive and in their overall best interest is really irresponsible parenting IMO.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
    stuff.
    Dude, I think you might be overthinking this. Combat sports don't instill any innate sense of violence. That exists independently. If your kid is reckless or a sociopath then sure, don't teach them to fight.

    Broadly speaking, most of the kids/teens I've met through BJJ aren't the ones with multiple visits to the principal's office.

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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
    I don't know anything about kiddie BJJ classes, but I have to question the motivation and purpose for them.

    So you know nothing about something specific, but decide you are capable of criticizing it? Okay. Makes perfect sense.

    People who DO KNOW, from real world actual experience, have said otherwise to your opinion, but you continue to insist you have insight. It might behoove you to actual look into something firsthand, or at the very least actually THINK about the facts before you continue making yourself heard.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil Burch View Post
    So you know nothing about something specific, but decide you are capable of criticizing it? Okay. Makes perfect sense.

    People who DO KNOW, from real world actual experience, have said otherwise to your opinion, but you continue to insist you have insight. It might behoove you to actual look into something firsthand, or at the very least actually THINK about the facts before you continue making yourself heard.

    I don't know much about them in the sense of structuring and organizing a young children's BJJ class specifically. I talked quite a bit with Royce, Rickson and Rodrigo in the early 90's about their philosophy on training children and watched a few classes. I just have a different perspective. And I think my experience with teaching youth wrestling, karate and judo is relevant to understanding the topic. I can't say anyone has ever accused me of lacking real world experience on this issue, the martial arts in general or of failing to think through my viewpoint, but I guess there's a first time for everything. No biggie.

    I read through all the posts on the thread, and considered what was presented. Am I not allowed to offer an alternative opinion here?

  7. #27
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    There's some irony in the fact that the article posted mentioned Megaton as one of the guys who regularly competes without injury...I think Cecil might know him but I'm not 100 percent sure...

    I guess some of the points being made just aren't consistent. First it's stated that kids might get injured in a contact sport. Kind of a given. That is a risk in any sport of course, and many youth athletes injure themselves. The injuries associated with a sport like football or cheerleading or basketball or soccer are just as serious and probably more likely.

    Next the arguement that it may be irresponsible to teach adolescents how to fight because they're dangerous or reckless. Yet there are fights amongst untrained kids (and adults) all the time. There are youth hunters. There are youth competitive shooters. We let teens drive. Is responsibility a habit or a chronological age?

    The fear of indoctrination mentioned in the same breath as college aged kids. Yet where else are you exposed to numerous charismatic types of various ideologies who will absolutely attempt to indoctrinate you?

    All of these things are a risk even in isolation of the martial arts, as per the BJJEE article linked. Just sitting at a desk all day will probably injure you and leave you with debilitating lifestyle illnesses that you will hate yourself for developing.

    TL;DR Is it truly reasonable to argue that practicing martial arts is actually bad for a kid? I do not think so.

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  8. #28
    All,

    By way of update, the kids have been training at Testudo for about a month. The instructors are fantastic with kids (I wish I could command the same attention) and the kids love it.

    Last week on the way to class, my five-year-old announced that he wants to be a BJJ instructor when he grows up. And yesterday, when there was no class due to a local competition, they put on their gis and started rolling in the living room.

    I just wish the schedule for adult classes worked for me!

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