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Thread: P30 auto slide release - training around the issue

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by 2xAGM114 View Post
    So the consensus is this "feature" in not something that can be fixed. Not even by HK. That's disappointing.

    I may be in the minority but any handgun you trust for personal defense should 100% reliable and have duplicatable behaviors 100% of the time.

    Anyone have a YouTube video of Todd G's technique?

    Thanks.
    Not sure why it needs to be fixed. It surprised me the first time but after doing some research I accepted that that is function of the pistol. It happens with my VP9 and Steyr M9 also. If it loading a magazine aggressively doesn’t release the slide I use the slide release. Dealing with this should be as reflexive as clearing a stovepipe malfunction.

    Actually, I kinda like the feature. [emoji854]


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  2. #12
    Once you seat the mag and are already mentally prepared to to press the slide release how much does it matter if the slide is forward or not?

    Same thing with using the overhand method. Is it costing you time to mentally notice the slide is now forward and you can start your grip sooner than if you had to complete the hand travel an rack the slide back?

    Are you seeing a noticeable difference on the timer or is it just a feeling of slowness because it is not what you planed to accomplish.

    Different issue but similar concept:
    I use a high grip and have bigger hands, most of the time my slide does not lock back at all so I often use a over hand rack. When it does lock back I use the slide release because I am already pressing it after putting in a new mag. The mental "WTF!" stutter happens while I am still in motion and has minimal effect on my reload time.

    Try a different attitude towards the issue before making any gun/parts changes. Maybe it will help
    Last edited by Artemas2; 06-30-2019 at 08:57 PM.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaponeer View Post
    Not sure why it needs to be fixed. It surprised me the first time but after doing some research I accepted that that is function of the pistol. It happens with my VP9 and Steyr M9 also. If it loading a magazine aggressively doesn’t release the slide I use the slide release. Dealing with this should be as reflexive as clearing a stovepipe malfunction.

    Actually, I kinda like the feature. [emoji854]
    Some people demand repeatability, and for many who see it as a feature will stand there staring at the gun for longer than they realize when it doesn't auto-forward.

    If you watch people reload, the slower ones complete the reload as a series of individual steps, as opposed to a fluid motion. I'd wager the ones who see auto-forwarding as a feature would be from the former camp.

    Ken Hackathorn said that inserting the magazine at an angle instead of in line with the mag well often is the reason why a gun auto-forwards.

    (if it's actually not called auto - forwarding I will feel dumb).

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
    If you watch people reload, the slower ones complete the reload as a series of individual steps, as opposed to a fluid motion. I'd wager the ones who see auto-forwarding as a feature would be from the former camp.
    I see it as a feature, and I don't think I'm too slow (it's been awhile since I've done a FAST, but my reloads were usually 1.7 - 1.9). It's not like it's hard to train yourself to recognize that the slide is still locked back, and to hit the slide release, when it's a gun with as big a slide release as an H&K P-series, as you move from your workspace to extension, without any real loss of time. If you're gonna rely specifically on auto-forwarding, going as far as to ignore other manipulations when it fails and end up constantly tapping the magazine to force it, then yes, that's extremely silly, but using it conjunction with a slide release seems to me to be very viable.
    Last edited by Default.mp3; 06-30-2019 at 09:29 PM.

  5. #15
    Member SsevenN's Avatar
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    Always seems like reloads are overthought. Insert the magazine, have whatever finger you release with indexed and perform the releasing motion after the magazine is seated, auto forwarding won't change the speed or outcome.
    "I'm checking out, somebody throw me in the trash"

    t. Frank Reynolds - IASIP

  6. #16
    Member Sauer Koch's Avatar
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    I’ve had this happen twice with my P30 during a course. Made me stop and thing “wth just happened”, but I also thought, “cool” and just moved on.
    They are VERY sensitive! I’ve hit mine many times, and had no idea that I touched it...and I even swapped mine for the short model, and I still find a way to ride it.

  7. #17
    I have short thumbs, and on some guns - particularly ones with thumb safeties - it can be awkward getting my strong hand thumb to the slide release. I've standardized on using my weak hand thumb to hit the slide release. If the slide auto-forwards, I see that as a bonus manipulation that I don't need to do. If it doesn't, or I don't catch whether or not it did, I just hit the slide release anyway. No harm in hitting the slide release if the slide is already forward.


    I think I posted something similar a while back, but there is a very simple reason why some guns auto-forward.

    In order for the slide to cycle normally, the slide release has to stay down, and not catch the slide. Some gun designs (like the 1911 and the M&P 2.0) do this via a detent. Others, like the Glock, orginal M&P, and the P30, us a spring. The spring holds the slide release down until the stronger magazine spring in an empty mag pushes it up to engage the slide.

    Keep that in mind - the slide release spring is pulling in the down / disengage direction.

    With the slide locked back, the only thing keeping the slide lock up is the friction / contact between the release and the slide. Pull the slide back, that friction / contact goes away, and the slide release is pulled back down by the spring.

    When a new mag is slammed into the gun, the impact is going to move the gun a little bit. That movement will be along the angle of the grip, but we can break it down into an "up" vector and a "forward" vector. It's the latter that we're interested in.

    As the frame moves forward, the slide, being heavy, is going to resist moving. If the forward vector of the mag-slamming-home-impact is strong enough, the slide's resistance to moving can compress the recoil spring slightly. It only needs to do that just enough for the slide-to-slide-release contact to be overcome by the slide release spring pulling down, and the slide release will disengage and drop the slide.

    ANY gun that has a spring pulling the slide release down will auto-forward if a mag is slammed in hard enough. A lighter frame, heavier slide, stronger slide release spring, weaker recoil spring, or steeper grip angle (Glock, I'm looking in your direction) will all make it more likely.
    Anti-astroturfing disclaimer: I am the owner of Bagman Tactical (custom tactical nylon).

  8. #18
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    My P2000 auto-forwards a lot. I don't claim any special level of expertise, but if the slide doesn't drop automatically, I've never had a problem hitting the lever and getting back to shootong, or assessing, or whatever's required. Different strokes I supoose.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark D View Post
    I've never had a problem hitting the lever and getting back to shootong, or assessing, or whatever's required. Different strokes I supoose.
    I don't believe the question was whether it was humanly possible, but rather how long it took to realize it's happened and then react accordingly.

  10. #20
    Member That Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archangel View Post
    ANY gun that has a spring pulling the slide release down will auto-forward if a mag is slammed in hard enough.
    And as archangels post explains, inserting the magazine with a push that is at about a 45 degree angle towards the muzzle maximizes the possibility that auto-forwarding happens. Inserting the magazine this way reduces the amount of force necessary to make the gun auto-forward significantly, and in my opinion makes auto-forwarding a very repeatable and consistent behaviour - at least with the two pistols I shoot most often, a Beretta PX4 and Walther P99.

    (From which follows that if you view auto-forwarding of the slide as a negative thing, taking care not to include this forward directed force vector in your magazine insertion reduces the possibility of it happening.)

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