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Thread: Another one of us shot during training

  1. #11
    Site Supporter entropy's Avatar
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    Yep. Live range separate facility from simunitions facility. Weapons stored in lockers prior to to sim training. Weapons checked and given claim tag. Self search followed by wanding entering sim facility. NOBODY has ANY access to weapons in sim facility. Instructors are wanded same as students.
    Working diligently to enlarge my group size.

  2. #12
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Relatively small? They’ve got 7 motor units, 3 K9s, commercial vehicle enforcement and a bunch of other stuff (according to their website). I guess it depends on your idea of relatively small. They’ve got resources, obviously.
    What can I say? It's relatively small compared to the outfits that I generally worked with. I don't use the term in a pejorative or dismissive manner. Smaller than NYPD, Miami-Dade, City of Miami, Homestead, Broward Sheriff's Office, DEA, Customs, ATF etc. Bigger than Mayberry.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

  3. #13
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Relatively small? They’ve got 7 motor units, 3 K9s, commercial vehicle enforcement and a bunch of other stuff (according to their website). I guess it depends on your idea of relatively small. They’ve got resources, obviously.
    131 sworn officers per their last annual statement. I suppose perspective will dictate how any given individual categorizes it, but I'd also consider it relatively small.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    131 sworn officers per their last annual statement. I suppose perspective will dictate how any given individual categorizes it, but I'd also consider it relatively small.
    According to the Bureau of Justice and Statistics, about half of the police departments in the United States are 10-man departments or smaller, so compared to that, 131 seems fairly large. Compared to a large metropolitan department, not that big. I work for a 155-man department, and we’ve always been considered a medium-sized agency. I think we’re the 5th or 6th largest in the state.

    https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/lpd13ppp.pdf

  5. #15
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC215 View Post
    According to the Bureau of Justice and Statistics, about half of the police departments in the United States are 10-man departments or smaller, so compared to that, 131 seems fairly large. Compared to a large metropolitan department, not that big. I work for a 155-man department, and we’ve always been considered a medium-sized agency. I think we’re the 5th or 6th largest in the state.

    https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/lpd13ppp.pdf
    I'm familiar with the stat, although I would counter how many total officers in the US work for all those 10 man departments vs how many work for 300 sworn or larger departments? We've got a bunch of those 3-10 man in my county. In total they don't add up to the manpower of my district alone.

    I think we're in agreement that it's a matter of perspective and that it's not a value judgement.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  6. #16
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    So, despite all the denials, apparently size really does matter.
    Last edited by blues; 06-29-2019 at 10:34 AM.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Back to not shooting fellow officers: wear body armor in training.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

    Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...

  8. #18
    On the subject of preventing these events by procedures and buddy checks: see https://www.wildfirelessons.net/High...&forceDialog=0 for a very good analysis of how humans miss the obvious. This was a helirappel fatal accident during training. Read the executive summary for context, and look at the photos on pages 21 through 27 so you'll understand what a total face palm this was for four trained people to miss an incorrect configuration. You can then skip to the Human Factors Analysis starting on page 33 (or just read the whole thing, which would be well worth your time). They do an excellent job of explaining the ways we can miss the obvious, or see the obvious and convince ourselves that it's ok when it isn't.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    Back to not shooting fellow officers: wear body armor in training.
    Body armor doesn’t cover everything.

    That aside are two school of thought on this training wise- one is that wearing armor with Sims teaches officers to trust their armor. The other is that it detracts from the training value by reducing the pain penalty.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Dog Guy View Post
    On the subject of preventing these events by procedures and buddy checks: see https://www.wildfirelessons.net/High...&forceDialog=0 for a very good analysis of how humans miss the obvious. This was a helirappel fatal accident during training. Read the executive summary for context, and look at the photos on pages 21 through 27 so you'll understand what a total face palm this was for four trained people to miss an incorrect configuration. You can then skip to the Human Factors Analysis starting on page 33 (or just read the whole thing, which would be well worth your time). They do an excellent job of explaining the ways we can miss the obvious, or see the obvious and convince ourselves that it's ok when it isn't.
    Thank you for posting that.

    Looking at the closeup of the misrigged hook, it seems obvious. But looking at the lineup of the three configurations , I can see that if your mental checklist said “j-hook attached to tri-link, gate closed?” you might think “check”, because it is. Besides, if it wasn’t attached, you couldn’t hold it out like that, right?

    The devil really is in the details.

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