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Thread: quickest/cheapest route to USPSA PCC from where I am now

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Curious about the 16"...

    I've read a few differing opinions on this here and there, but the primary reason for going 16" seems to be not dealing with NFA, which I've already done, so is there another benefit?

    I got a chance to half-assed shoot another guy's gun on an old stage yesterday after the match, and in running that stage I could see some advantages to the maneuverability of the shorter barrel on stages designed for pistols particularly.
    I enjoy shooting my SIG MPX 8 inch SBR; so, yes - if you already have the NFA settled you may want a shorter upper. PSA has a 10.5 inch 9mm upper on sale (of course!) for $320 for 4th of July.

  2. #22
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    I have to post this somewhere, so I'll put it in this thread. At a local USPSA match yesterday, we had three PCC shooters on our squad. It slowed things down quite a bit, due to fooling with cases, flags, and other issues. I got swept by one shooter as she was trying to bag her PCC. Then that same shooter DQed by breaking the safe angle because navigating USPSA stages with a long gun is challenging.

    Another shooter had a carbine built from JP parts, and it would not run for more than 5 or 10 shots at a time without a major malfunction. This wasn't surprising to me because most of the AR-related malfunctions I've witnessed have involved JP parts or guns.

    So, do I wish PCC weren't a thing in USPSA? Yes. Yes I do.
    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 07-14-2019 at 11:09 AM.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
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  3. #23
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I have to post this somewhere, so I'll put it in this thread. At a local USPSA match yesterday, we had three PCC shooters on our squad. It slowed things down quite a bit, due to fooling with cases, flags, and other issues. I got swept by one shooter as she was trying to bag her PCC. Then that same shooter DQed by breaking the safe angle because navigating USPSA stages with a long gun is challenging.

    Another shooter had a carbine built from JP parts, and it would not run for more than 5 or 10 shots at a time without a major malfunction. This wasn't surprising to me because most of the AR-related malfunctions I've witnessed have involved JP parts or guns.

    So, do I wish PCC weren't a thing in USPSA? Yes. Yes I do.
    I can certainly understand the frustration, and I've witnessed the issues and even been annoyed by them myself since I used to shoot handgun and rifle at steel matches many years ago (never both in the same match, which frankly can be another complaint).

    first the easy part...
    malfunctions are a thing no matter what, and frankly they should be dealt with the same way no matter what. I don't know how to be "fair" about it since USPSA is so into range lawyering, but multiple malfs should equal a dq.

    for the harder part...
    nobody wants to admit it, but slings are a big part of the answer. I ran a carbine match for many years where we shot USPSA-style stages and we discussed and tested bagging, racks at the stage, and slings, and ultimately slings proved time and again to be the only way to go. Rifle slung in the safe area, muzzle down, in front of your body, ejection port out, flag inserted. control your muzzle when you bend or stoop, failure to do so gets you ejected.

    for the hardest part...
    some people shouldn't be allowed to shoot at all, let a lone long guns, on action stages. Because of the issues we saw in the millenial age (I should be allowed to do anything I want!), we implemented a qualification process for our matches. A few times a year we had people shoot a qual if they wanted to be able to come out and shoot with us, and sometimes we'd qual a new shooter right on the spot. It involved shooting at a target which was ultimately un-scored (but if too many misses were noted we'd refuse to pass the shooter). We required standing, kneeling, prone, reloads, and transition to handgun (I think). It kept out the riffraff and, like a lot of tests, kept a lot of the idiots from ever even showing up.

  4. #24
    Member olstyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I have to post this somewhere, so I'll put it in this thread. At a local USPSA match yesterday, we had three PCC shooters on our squad. It slowed things down quite a bit, due to fooling with cases, flags, and other issues. I got swept by one shooter as she was trying to bag her PCC. Then that same shooter DQed by breaking the safe angle because navigating USPSA stages with a long gun is challenging.
    How did she have the opportunity to DQ for something else *after* sweeping you? She should have been DQed right then.

  5. #25
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Another shooter had a carbine built from JP parts, and it would not run for more than 5 or 10 shots at a time without a major malfunction. This wasn't surprising to me because most of the AR-related malfunctions I've witnessed have involved JP parts or guns.
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    malfunctions are a thing no matter what, and frankly they should be dealt with the same way no matter what. I don't know how to be "fair" about it since USPSA is so into range lawyering, but multiple malfs should equal a dq.
    On my wish-list... # of stoppages (TBD) during a stage results in a DQ for that division entry. But I'm a snob that shoots guns and ammo that work.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  6. #26
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olstyn View Post
    How did she have the opportunity to DQ for something else *after* sweeping you? She should have been DQed right then.
    I wasn’t the RO, so I didn’t have the power to DQ. Also, the way the PCC “safety table” was set up made it ambiguous where you could point the muzzle.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  7. #27
    Member olstyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I wasn’t the RO, so I didn’t have the power to DQ. Also, the way the PCC “safety table” was set up made it ambiguous where you could point the muzzle.
    Fair enough, but having seen enough people do it at matches, what's difficult about flag it, muzzle up, walk that way to the safety table and bag it there? Edit: Or do you mean she somehow swept you from the safety table? (If so, ick, poor setup choices!)
    Last edited by olstyn; 07-15-2019 at 05:40 PM.

  8. #28
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olstyn View Post
    Fair enough, but having seen enough people do it at matches, what's difficult about flag it, muzzle up, walk that way to the safety table and bag it there? Edit: Or do you mean she somehow swept you from the safety table? (If so, ick, poor setup choices!)
    She swept me from the PCC bench, which was not an official safety area. Her gun was turned fully around and aimed downrange where targets were being reset. I hate staring down a rifle barrel.

    The PCC rules are completely random. Uncase at the berm, some random bench with inadequate backstop, wherefuckingever apparently.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    She swept me from the PCC bench, which was not an official safety area. Her gun was turned fully around and aimed downrange where targets were being reset. I hate staring down a rifle barrel.

    The PCC rules are completely random. Uncase at the berm, some random bench with inadequate backstop, wherefuckingever apparently.
    Not sure what is random:

    10.5 Match Disqualification –Unsafe Gun Handling

    10.5.19 Failing to point the muzzle of a PCC at a side berm or back stop during casing/uncasing or removing/replacing on a conveyance or sweeping any person with the muzzle of a PCC, whether loaded or not, even if a chamber flag is inserted. Side berms/backstops may be used for casing and uncasing or removing from/placing on conveyances only. All other gun handling with the PCC, e.g., sight pictures, turning dots on/off, etc., must be accomplished in a safety area or under the direct supervision of a Range Officer. The berm/backstop is not required while removing/returning a properly flagged PCC from/to a vehicle providing all other safety rules are followed.
    Last edited by bofe954; 07-15-2019 at 06:29 PM.

  10. #30
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting that. I'm not complaining about the already clear rules about muzzling someone. It's the casing/uncasing at a "berm" or "back stop" that causes problems.

    How high does the berm need to be?
    How close to muzzling people is ok when uncasing?
    Does the backstop need to be bulletproof?
    What exactly does "inserted" mean for a chamber flag?

    I've seen a very wide range of procedures, and many of them made me uncomfortable. Interestingly, 3-gun shooters are virtually unanimous about this not being a problem in any way. However, I do not think different safety procedures should be applied to USPSA for PCC vs. handguns.

    Quote Originally Posted by bofe954 View Post
    Not sure what is random:

    10.5 Match Disqualification –Unsafe Gun Handling

    10.5.19 Failing to point the muzzle of a PCC at a side berm or back stop during casing/uncasing or removing/replacing on a conveyance or sweeping any person with the muzzle of a PCC, whether loaded or not, even if a chamber flag is inserted. Side berms/backstops may be used for casing and uncasing or removing from/placing on conveyances only. All other gun handling with the PCC, e.g., sight pictures, turning dots on/off, etc., must be accomplished in a safety area or under the direct supervision of a Range Officer. The berm/backstop is not required while removing/returning a properly flagged PCC from/to a vehicle providing all other safety rules are followed.
    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 07-15-2019 at 06:48 PM.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

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