USPSA Carry Optics pistols

[GJM]

I started shooting USPSA Carry Optics (CO) in 2016, shortly after it became a provisional division, and thought I would share some of my experiences with various pistols.

Prior to 2016, I had shot a red dot off and on, was pleased with it on harder shots, never quite satisfied up close, and generally ambivalent. My experience was all RMR, both on a Glock and a Sig 226. When CO came about, I decided to grab one of the new Glock Gen 4 19 MOS pistols, a DP Pro, and learn more about running a dot in USPSA. I shot the 19 for about six months, was generally pleased, but wished for a longer grip and an easier time making power factor with my loads.

Since I had been shooting a CZ Shadow 1 in Production, I tried to get a pair set up but never fully got my act together. About that time I was increasingly frustrated with the ten round magazine limit, competing in an area that was very Open and Limited oriented. PCC came along, and I decided to shoot "open long" for a while. I decided to get an Open gun, and as soon as I ordered one, USPSA switched to a 140mm magazine limit for CO. That suited me just fine, as I really didn't want to shoot Open, I wanted to shoot a facsimile of my carry gun, but with a red dot.

Late spring of 2017, I bought a Walther Q5, installed a Pro, and started shooting it. I really liked the trigger on the Walther. I respect the Glock design, but I always had a love hate relationship with the Glock trigger, and the Walther trigger was frankly exciting. As I shot the Walther more, I ran into some problems. The grip was short for me, I could only reliably get 20 or 21 rounds in the magazine, occasionally I would jar the sear and end up with a dead trigger when reloading aggressively, and the left rear corner of the Walther frame beat up the base of my thumb enough it brought pain with every shot.

That led me to try the CZ P09, which I had Primary Machine direct mill for a DP Pro. I really liked the P09, but after a month or so I ran into the problem where I could get click instead of bang on double action shots. That led me back to Glock, which is a familiar theme, every time stuff gets messed up, pull out a Glock. From July through November 2018 I shot a Gen 3/4 direct milled Glock 34. I seemed to be doing well with it, but I never loved the trigger, as it would seem like there would be shots that I didn't call that wouldn't hit where I thought they would.

I love HK pistols, and when I tried the VP9 previously, I just couldn't get used to the paddle mag release. When the VP9B came out, I decided to get one direct milled in November 2018, and work with it. From minute one, I felt like I had better trigger control with the VP9 than with the Glock. I shot that happily through March 2019, when I made the mistake of trying YVK's Shadow 2 trigger, and I started having serious trigger envy. I sent a VP9 to Lazy Wolf, and when I got it back,I was very happy with that trigger. Then the trigger broke, and I was back to a five pound OEM VP9 trigger. I got it fixed, and it broke again, and I was without a competition VP9.

With the Magnus Cup match happening, I grabbed a Gen 3 Glock 34 out of the safe,, and with two days Glock practice went to that match. I actually did fine, but I had three mikes on tight targets that I did not call. After that match, in a practice session, I got frustrated enough with some tight shots going awry, that I threw a Glock magazine through a USPSA target -- a first for me. During this time i was trying to get some Shadow 1 and 2 pistols set up, which was a royal pain, between the weight loss required for the Shadow 2,and dealing with metal gunsmiths. Another issue was I HATE cleaning guns, and the Glock, Walther and VP9 pistols were run them like lawnmower pistols.

About a month ago, I got a CZ Optics Ready P10F, threw a DP Pro on, and started working with it. It is a stock pistol, except a slightly lighter striker spring, and I have been thrilled with the pistols. I am yet to have a stoppage with any of the ones I have, and I feel like I have excellent trigger control with it. I just finished the Area 1 match over three days and 16 stages, and did not have a single mike shooting the P10 in the match. I also have a P10 Compact for carry, and I feel like, ergonomically, it is a product improved Glock 19. I just sent a slide to Primary Machine to direct mill a type 2 RMR.

For the last few months, my wife and I have been watching a friend shoot a 320 X5 with a GGI trigger, and between the weight of the pistol and the weight of the trigger, I keep telling him that it is closer to an Open gun than a CO division pistol. This morning, with Area 1 done, my wife and I got to the range with an X5 for the first real session. She was absolutely blown away, which is amazing, coming from a girl that has shot a Glock faithfully for a few decades. We will have to see what happens, but there is a reason that the 320 X5 is the most popular CO pistol now in USPSA.

[YVK]

Shadow 2 is a sweet shooting gun but a pain in the ass to set up for CO. Doable though, just time and money. Assuming that Trijicon will make SRO worth spending money on, it is still impossible to have CZ directly milled for it. If I had to start from scratch, I'd probably go X5. Having shot X5 a little, I agree that it is a sweet shooting gun, even though I despise SIG. I don't know what current mounting pattern is for, but for everything else other than that, it is plate mounting only. Between one additional failure point, instances of plates flying off, and stripped screws, it might be the main limitation of this gun. That, and a requirement for Gray trigger, and less than optimal factory surface treatment.

[JHC]

Very cool review. How would you compare and contrast the VP9 OEM trigger to the CZ P10 OEM trigger for your tight shots?

[GJM]

Very cool review. How would you compare and contrast the VP9 OEM trigger to the CZ P10 OEM trigger for your tight shots?

I would say they are similar, but the P10F trigger is about a pound lighter.

The P10 has other advantages. It is available optics ready, where the VP9 has to be direct milled. It has a 4.5 inch barrel, making it easier to make power factor with lighter ammo. It is much easier to reload than the VP9, and the OEM mags hold 19 instead of 15. It is also very Glock like, from a maintenance perspective, and not subject to Enel’s mallet releasing the sear.

For combi carry/competition use, I think the P10F/C pistols are brilliant. They fit in many Glock holsters, point naturally, and do not seem subject to the “my Glock shoots left” ergonomics.

[JHC]

I would say they are similar, but the P10F trigger is about a pound lighter.

The P10 has other advantages. It is available optics ready, where the VP9 has to be direct milled. It has a 4.5 inch barrel, making it easier to make power factor with lighter ammo. It is much easier to reload than the VP9, and the OEM mags hold 19 instead of 15. It is also very Glock like, from a maintenance perspective, and not subject to Enel’s mallet releasing the sear.

For combi carry/competition use, I think the P10F/C pistols are brilliant. They fit in many Glock holsters, point naturally, and do not seem subject to the “my Glock shoots left” ergonomics.

Thanks! A similar P10F comparo to the 320 X5 is surely forthcoming. Right?

[GJM]

Thanks! A similar P10F comparo to the 320 X5 is surely forthcoming. Right?

I think that is inevitable — my wife has improved so much, I don’t want her to have a technology advantage over me!

Assuming reliability, accuracy and reasonable ergonomics, a lot of this is simply trigger weight and overall pistol weight.

Here are some USPSA CO weights, meaning their weight empty with their optic, and an empty 140mm magazine.

Glock 45 with Acro - 27.95 ounces

Gen 5 Glock 34 with DP Pro - 27.35

VP9 with DP Pro - 29.05

P10F with DP Pro - 29.50

320 X5 with RTS 2 - 32.60

320 X5 with DP Pro and Tungsten guide rod - 35.50

320 X5 with DP Pro and some more grip mods - 37.43

New 320 Legion X5 with Tungsten infused grip module is supposed to be about 44.0 all up.

Shadow 2 with DP Pro, and weight reductions - 44.0

[spinmove_]

Despite my interest of your findings and comparisons, SIG’s QC and general business practices still gives me the willies.


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[GJM]

Despite my interest of your findings and comparisons, SIG’s QC and general business practices still gives me the willies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am still pissed at Sig too, but my grudges are against companies and not products, or I would pretty much be limited to a 1950’s manufacture S&W revolver, Colt 1911 and Winchester model 70.

[JHC]

. . . limited to a 1950’s manufacture S&W revolver, Colt 1911 and Winchester model 70 . . .

I get it, I get it. But how romantic that would be!

[Clusterfrack]

For me, the most important thing was to keep it as similar as possible to my Production guns, so I went with a Shadow2 CO conversion. I'm still focussing primarily on Production, but so far the S2 has worked great as a CO gun.

I shot p320s for a couple years, and was quite happy with them. I agree that this is probably the best out-of-the-box CO gun right now.