RFI: Carbine Gas FSB Cutout DROP IN Rails?

[Magsz]

Options may have existed other than the Troy but I assume what may have been out there is probably discontinued. Market demand for carbine gas A-frame rails has got to be almost nil nowadays.

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Texas sized 10-4...

My agency will still be using .223 when everyone else has moved onto phaser canons. :P

[Tokarev]

Texas sized 10-4...

My agency will still be using .223 when everyone else has moved onto phaser canons. :P

We have a few 11.5 and 14.5" guns with low pros and BCM KMR or MMR forends. But they are relatively recent issue. Most of the guns we're currently using are 14.5" Colts. Some still have the round plastic handguard.

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[Magsz]

Well...

That was short lived.

I took the rifle out with the UTG pro rail and ran 300 rounds through it with the intent of getting it hot. I wanted to see if any of the mounting points were going to come loose.

My actual findings regarding shooting the thing:

The cut of this rail just doesnt work for me. My natural position of where I want my support hand is essentially right where the FSB is on a carbine gas gun. Even if i run the stock out (which i normally do anyway) I still find myself cramped. Even on my SBR's I essentially run my hand over the gas block. Its just how my body is designed I guess so this rail is a no go for ME. Once the gun got hot, I was continually burning myself on the FSB as there is a HUGE cutout on the bottom for the bayonet lug and my hand kept creeping forward. I tried variations of my normal grip by pushing my hand further back and instead "pointing" with my index finger along the 9 o'clock side of the rail. Invariably, I would end up creeping forward and burning myself on the bayonet lug.

I was also a little disappointed that the rail was a 15 inch instead of a 13. I just didnt need all of that rail out front adding extra weight as my Protac 2 weaponlight was mounted just forward of the FSB on the 3 o'clock rail in an arisaka offset mount. The setup did work marvelously with my Cloud Defensive LCS and pressure pad. I do miss that now that the rail is off of the gun.

So here is ultimately what killed it for me. I went to go check the rail today and the two indexing set screws that keep the rail from rotating on the barrel nut were loose along with two of the side mounted screws that secure the top rail to the bottom. I used high temp vibratite and degreased the threads prior to installation and the screws were still loose. Those set screws receive WAY too much heat butting up against the barrel nut. Granted, those set screws are also NOT necessary for the rail to function but I like things solid and when they come loose, I get annoyed.

So, overall, im super impressed by UTG's offering, especially at its current price point right around a hundo. I think that alot of the downsides that I found are subjective and specific to me as I tend to not want to carry a gun that I dont feel compelled to shoot at the range. I dont want to say that this rail isnt "duty" grade as I would NEVER get the gun hot to the point where I was going to get burned by the FSB in an OIS but I WANT to actually train with the damned thing and if i cant do so comfortably, the setup just doesnt work.

My holy grail would be the following:

Drop in, no modification necessary, M lok rail that uses the standard delta ring and barrel nut. The rail would be a 9 inch plus rail that would extend over the bayonet lug covering the FSB at the 3, 9 and 6 o'clock points. Its a shame that there is such a small market for this type of rail. Granted, its an even bigger shame that in 2019, working for a huge department im faced with this issue due to ridiculous policies. Basically if someone could make a free float MOE SL in a nice slim profile id be all over that shit like white on rice.

I promised pictures, ill have to get them up at some point, im just too stupid to figure out how to host them.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

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I actually really like the look of this rifle. As well as the other FSB rifles you posted.

My place still issues and for whatever reason swears by the old Surefire forends where the light is molded into a standard carbine handguard like an incandescent tumor. They also all feature the original sub 100 lumen heads.

I find them exceptional for making the dark darker and low light Targets more difficult to shoot.

I'll cease my venting for now. But just wanted to say this thread has really been interesting. I have seen several agencies lately still using that Troy/VTAC rail.

[Tokarev]

My place still issues and for whatever reason swears by the old Surefire forends where the light is molded into a standard carbine handguard like an incandescent tumor. They also all feature the original sub 100 lumen heads.

I believe Malkoff Devices makes LED upgrades for those old Surefire forends. Might be worth a poke around on his website and/or a phone call.



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[Whiskey_Bravo]

I believe Malkoff Devices makes LED upgrades for those old Surefire forends. Might be worth a poke around on his website and/or a phone call.

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You are correct. Surefire also makes an upgraded head. All of this was brought to the attention of the decision makers. They saw nothing wrong with the current issued gear.

[Tokarev]

You are correct. Surefire also makes an upgraded head. All of this was brought to the attention of the decision makers. They saw nothing wrong with the current issued gear.

[emoji53]

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[SamueL]

I had the same issue with our policy. We were limited to a handful of Colt and Bushmaster models and modifications were not allowed if they required tools. I opted for a Colt 6920 Magpul and eventually had the itch for a longer rail. I ran a Troy Delta rail for a while and liked it for the benefits it provided. I went back to the Magpul MOE because I found out, once I had my concealable armor and plate carrier on, my short t-rex arms could not reach the extended real estate.

Right around the time I was looking at trying a Daniel Defense Omega 7.0, the policy drastically changed to include just about anything including homemade parts guns assembled out of spec.

I disliked the rail section on the bottom of the Delta rail but learned to live with it. I would recommend the VTAC version as others have said to lose the grater feel.

[HCM]

You are correct. Surefire also makes an upgraded head. All of this was brought to the attention of the decision makers. They saw nothing wrong with the current issued gear.

Two ways to prod them toward brighter lights-

1) Liability

2) aging work force. At 40 something it takes 4x as much light to see something in the dark vs when you were 14.

Refusal to recognize number 2 and make reasonable accommodation is an age discrimination complaint waiting to happen.

[Magsz]

I had the same issue with our policy. We were limited to a handful of Colt and Bushmaster models and modifications were not allowed if they required tools. I opted for a Colt 6920 Magpul and eventually had the itch for a longer rail. I ran a Troy Delta rail for a while and liked it for the benefits it provided. I went back to the Magpul MOE because I found out, once I had my concealable armor and plate carrier on, my short t-rex arms could not reach the extended real estate.

Right around the time I was looking at trying a Daniel Defense Omega 7.0, the policy drastically changed to include just about anything including homemade parts guns assembled out of spec.

I disliked the rail section on the bottom of the Delta rail but learned to live with it. I would recommend the VTAC version as others have said to lose the grater feel.

I have the same issue. All of that extended rail did nothing for me once I put my armor on. I dont have long or short arms but it just didn't work for me.

I MAY try the Omega rail as my gun feels a little on the heavy side as its currently set up.