Pistols I saw last week & what stood out

[JTQ]

The student with a 1.0 was loaned it when she realized the Glock she was using wasn't viable for her;

What was that issue?

[revchuck38]

I would, however, be predisposed to trust an XD over a first generation M&P.

I'm curious as to why. I've had full-size versions in 9x19, .40 S&W and .45 ACP, and still have the last two. All ran well. The only problem I had was with the .45, an early one on which the trigger died and was repaired under warranty almost ten years after I bought it. I've since jumped on the TDA bandwagon, but if I were to go back to non-TDA striker-fired, I'd be comfortable carrying either the 40 or the 45 (or the nine, if I still had it).

[LockedBreech]

It has been a minute since I re-read DocGKR's post on duty handguns, but if I recall, his issue with the XD as a duty weapon wasn't the inherent mechanical reliability, it was the small, non-one-hand-friendly grip safety and the higher incidence of parts breakages at high round counts. As someone has posted, the Mod 2 improves the grip safety (though takes two steps backwards with the infernal Grip Zone).

With the new "Defender" series XD9s obtainable in the 280-290 range, you could do a lot worse. I'd still probably go with a Smith & Wesson SD9VE first, but I'd choose the XD over any of the Canik/Sarsilmaz type options.

Of course, we're also in a temporary bubble of police surplus Glocks available in the $300-400 range, so that should be the sole repository for bargain guns at present.

[Erick Gelhaus]

What I love about this is the information comes from REAL world experience, not a "gun writer."

Uhm, I'm a former gun writer.

... I would, however, be predisposed to trust an XD over a first generation M&P (particularly in 9mm).

I'd be interested in your Whys for that position.

What was that issue?

Handsize and likely more. She was seriously struggling with the Glock, shifting to the M&P and its dimensions addressed that.

[paherne]

I'm specifically referencing XDs. I've only had three come through my ranges. All had malfunctions, most were mag issues. The lack of armorer support, disastrous ergos when it comes to one-handed manipulations, (like happens in gunfights) and my limited experience with them makes them a no-go for duty/defensive use. The sample of pistols I saw were from about 10 years ago, so they could have addressed the malfunction issues. My guys that bought them did so because they were cheaper than Glocks and we all know cops are cheap.

[paherne]

It has been a minute since I re-read DocGKR's post on duty handguns, but if I recall, his issue with the XD as a duty weapon wasn't the inherent mechanical reliability, it was the small, non-one-hand-friendly grip safety and the higher incidence of parts breakages at high round counts. As someone has posted, the Mod 2 improves the grip safety (though takes two steps backwards with the infernal Grip Zone).

With the new "Defender" series XD9s obtainable in the 280-290 range, you could do a lot worse. I'd still probably go with a Smith & Wesson SD9VE first, but I'd choose the XD over any of the Canik/Sarsilmaz type options.

Of course, we're also in a temporary bubble of police surplus Glocks available in the $300-400 range, so that should be the sole repository for bargain guns at present.

The Blue Label price for Glocks at the local police dealer for their once a year Glock days is around $400-450 out the door, depending if you want the night sights.

[LockedBreech]

The Blue Label price for Glocks at the local police dealer for their once a year Glock days is around $400-450 out the door, depending if you want the night sights.

Right, forgot we were talking about a LE class. Kinda no contest at those prices.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vcdgrips]

Erick,
Thank you for taking the time to post up. Consistent with your schedule, please continue to do so as you have access to excellent data points re how things function in a high round count setting where manipulations, weather, timed evaluations etc. are all in play.

Blessings to you and yours,

David Barnes
Team Kansas
Gunsite "250+"
June 2007

[TheNewbie]

It has been a minute since I re-read DocGKR's post on duty handguns, but if I recall, his issue with the XD as a duty weapon wasn't the inherent mechanical reliability, it was the small, non-one-hand-friendly grip safety and the higher incidence of parts breakages at high round counts. As someone has posted, the Mod 2 improves the grip safety (though takes two steps backwards with the infernal Grip Zone).

With the new "Defender" series XD9s obtainable in the 280-290 range, you could do a lot worse. I'd still probably go with a Smith & Wesson SD9VE first, but I'd choose the XD over any of the Canik/Sarsilmaz type options.

Of course, we're also in a temporary bubble of police surplus Glocks available in the $300-400 range, so that should be the sole repository for bargain guns at present.

The XDS MOD2 improves the grip safety, the grip (removed stupid “grip zone”), and according to SA propaganda has been tested well. It’s the lack of NON ambi mag release that is an issue.

If I had a choice between a gun without the ability to ride the hammer/safety/SCD or one with the improved grip safety, I would take the improved XD.

Why they do not carry this over to the full size I do not know. Come on SA!

[JonInWA]

Uhm, I'm a former gun writer.



I'd be interested in your Whys for that position.


Handsize and likely more. She was seriously struggling with the Glock, shifting to the M&P and its dimensions addressed that.

Erick, my skepticism regarding the first generation of M&Ps is due to the combination of accuracy issues that seemed to sporadically plague the 9mm M&Ps, and other small parts issues that I'd observed with them (poorly fitted sights, improperly function slide releases/stops personally observed). It seemed that S&W would attempt to resolve one issue, only to promptly cheap out on other components/QC which seemed to cause a cascading effect. It also irked me that to get a decent triggerpull that you were pretty much compelled to go to aftermarket components-not that wasn't an effective solution, but in a competitive market niche, something in my opinion that S&W should have immediately jumped on top of, instead of creating a compelling market niche for after-market components. These issues seem to have been decisively resolved by the 2.0 variants, but it's unfortunate that it took years for them to do so.

I've heard better reports regarding the .40 and .45 ACP M&Ps (save for a magazine spring issue with the .45s that required resolution).

I think that the M&P is intrinsically a better platform than the XD, but it hasn't been until the 2.0s that they (the 9mm) really reached fruition.

My personal preference in a SFA pistol remains with Glock and HK, but that's me.

I really appreciate your taking the time to discuss your observations from your class.

Best, Jon