This could be corrected with an aftermarket barrel.Originally Posted by HCM
This could be corrected with an aftermarket barrel.
Jon, thank you for the reply. For reference, I came up carrying, etc a custom 1911 and did for 20 of my first 21 years in police work. I had no issue paying a gunsmith to fix or improve the platform. Simultaneously, I watched the Glock progression: 1993 and mandatory product upgrades (Recall) done by Peter A Kasler in our training room at work; 2000, the first round of problems with Gen 3 G22s and WMLs; NYPD's Gen 3 G19 issues; 2010 & 11, our Gen 3 G22 debacle; 2011(?) Gen 4 G17 over-springing; 2014, our Gen 4 G22 debacle. Guess I've come to understand nothing is perfection.
You are welcome sir.
[QUOTE=11B10;896284]Tis ok, you couldn't have known. It's not like we go to meetings or anything.
Yeah, yeah I am. I still really enjoy writing, I just go for niche areas now.He's still in recovery.....
Won't disagree with Cowan or anyone else. I'm not advocating for the XD series, just relaying what I saw.
Concur. I bought new sights, fire control group parts, and a couple after market barrels.
David, you are welcome & thank you. I'll try to add to this after doing classes down there.
Erick, I totally agree with you regarding the historic Glock issues that you cited (and then some); however, and in keeping in mind some of their initially grumpiness and denials, Glock, in many cases was fairly quick to achieve favorable resolutions.
To me, a 1911 is a totally different animal, particularly for organizational issue and use that a contemporary quality polymer-frame pistol; Hilton Yam (and others) have addressed this well. A 1911 is simply going to require more dedicated support above and beyond the individual user, and an organizational user in particular is well advised to have, or have access to replacement guns while necessary repairs and/or maintenance by skilled personnel is being performed.
I too have had some long-standing relationships with some of the personnel at Glock, both on the LE side, and Glock Professional side, and Glock retail side. In every issue I've addressed to them, either personal or for others, they've been both polite and effective in achieving a favorable resolution.
I believe Larry Vickers summed up the M&P situation (at least the 1.0 9mm issues) well; something along the lines of it was a potentially superb platform that S&W failed to spend the relatively small amount necessary to truly make it live up to its expectations in the field. It seems, at least anecdotally by all accounts that I've come across that the 2.0 has favorably turned the M&P 9mm situation around; it's just unfortunate that 1) it took so long to do, and 2) that the corrective burden for the 1.0s (particularly the 9mm 1.0s) was placed on the end user for as long as it was.
In a competitive marketplace, If product A and Product B are essentially priced the same, but Product B really needs additional aftermarket time and resources to actually achieve parity with Product A, then it behooves one to factor in that additional actual transaction cost to the pricing consideration table. And if the manufacturer of Product B shows no, or systemic reluctance to address the deficiencies, in my mind that raises other questions regarding the manufacturer's veracity, intrinsic product value, and support resources that will likely have to be dedicated to the platform-quite possibly involving individual or organization out-of-pocket expenses.
Best, Jon
Last edited by JonInWA; 06-25-2019 at 04:46 PM.
I have had two experiences with the XD. A 4 in .45 and 9 sc. Both were reasonably accurate. The .45 had around 750 rounds through it. At around 500 rounds it started having multiple different failures through different magazines. One mag was bad but it also had extraction problems. The xd9sc has almost 1000 through it. It had a few bobbles along the way. One the gun had locked up. Case was stuck in barrel. Most every other failure was some sort of failure upon extraction as well. This was almost 8 years ago. But my experience was not great and a couple friends mirrored them. I had no further interest in the line.
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I've owned an XD, maintain XDms for a few people that depend on them. I'm well aware of and respect Cowan's opinions.
Personally not a fan of the specific grip safety design, shark fin LCI - or design details (trigger and sear assy's) from a maintenance point of view. PITA to detail strip. The single supported end of the ejector (or is it sear?) pin isn't confidence-inspiring.
On the other hand Seeklander runs them hard and still uses them. The people I maintain them for are not range heroes but these things keep on ticking with a solid "Officer Friendly +P" level of neglect.
I love Toyotas but I can't sell one to a neighbor whose Kia's hit 200k without issues. Their choice.
I was reading the M&P accuracy issues thread and IIRC it was sometimes correctable with a new barrel. That was the problem, was that there wasn't a sure fix.
Thread derail re: M&P
I managed a fleet of over 600 of them. Initially, we bought .40s. I'm not and was not a fan of the caliber, nor was I a fan of S&W, due to issues we had with them from the Bangor Punta days. I actively opposed adoption. I ate crow. The .40s we had suffered exactly two of the broken slide stops that seemed problematic. No other problems and I never had to send one gun back. When we switched to 9mm, we got the ones with a newer barrel (these were still 1.0 versions) and we had zero parts failures from Smith, and perhaps six issues with front night sights which are sourced from Trijicon. Smith sent me a dozen spares with one phone call. All of our 9mms shot within 3 inches or better at 25 yards, which is what Smith promises. I never had an issue with the original trigger, but they made a change to the geometry of the slide stop which helped with tactile reset. I put a KKM drop in barrel in mine and saw a small increase in accuracy. Today, that pistol has over 50k through it, sports an RMR milled slide from L&M and that same KKM bbl. I carry it with the agency I reserve for and this year qualified with a personal best score.
As Eric said, perfection isn't. I've seen every major brand of duty grade pistol have issues. I have experienced and observed very good CS from Glock, the S&W of the last 15 years, Sig from the 90s (my last experience with them from about 15 years ago up to the present left A LOT to be desired, but like Smith, they can, and I hope will, find the road to redemption) and Beretta. H&K was, well, H&K, but all my delays with them were due to the US Govt. and import red tape on MP5 SDs. Not a swipe at anybody, and I've been guilty of it myself many times in the past, but the " I heard" , "I read", or especially " I saw online" needs to be taken with a pillar of salt. I'm no fan boy of any brand in particular. The things I look for in a service/defensive handgun are reliability, accuracy, parts & support availability, ease of maintenance and repair. Right now, I'm heavily invested in the M&P line, but not set in stone. Fortunately for the private citizen, the choice is up to them. As a cop, that decision was made for me, so I had to learn live with what was issued. JMHO, worth what you paid for it
Thanks for sharing your insights and experience. Lots of great info.
The Apex barrel is a sure fix because it addressed the early unlocking issues, not just barrel twist.
My experience is similar to yours.
My department switched from our reliable 3rd Gens to the abysmal SW99 40 S&W in 2003. After that fiasco, S&W basically did a straight swap for the newly released M&P 40 in 2007. After being burned by the SW99 we were skeptical, but free is free and we rolled the dice, especially after watching other agencies (and some of our cops) suffer with 40 S&W Glock WML issues. The 200 M&P 40's we had in-service were awesome. I had some broken right-side slide stop levers (doesn't effect anything unless you're left handed), a rust issue on one slide (quickly replaced by factory), a cracked slide (quickly replaced by factory, and that's it. Period. They worked great. We swapped them out for pre-2.0 M&P 9's literally months before the 2.0 was released. No problems with those guns either.
The early 9mm guns had accuracy and extractor issues. The later ones (that we have) I just haven't seen it.
I think that the bullshit that floats around on the internet and one or two people's anecdotal experience forms a warped perspective on different pistol lines.
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