.45 Colt Duty Revolvers

[john c]

DB has mentioned in various posts that he and many guys on his dept carried .45 Colt duty revolvers in the 1980s-1990s, before the switch to semi auto pistols.

I have a couple of questions for DB, and any other officers who may have carried these back in the day:


1) How did you source pistols? It's my understanding that Smith only made the 25-5 in .45 Colt on an infrequent basis.

2) Were these (pretty much) all in 4 inch guns, or did guys carry 5 or 6 inch guns?

3) How many guys actually carried these vs. .357 or .38 revolvers? Was this a specialist, or "elite" gun, or standard issue?

4) Did your dept provide ammo? It seems like 220 gr Silvertip was the go-to round.

5) Was this mostly a rural Sheriff's Dept sort of pistol, or an urban police concept? The reason I ask is that these were apparently a Sheriff's Dept thing in my area. The city cops carried .41 or .44 magnums for the "elite" shooters, and the pedestrian officers carried .357 or .38s.

6) Why the .45 Colt and not the .41 mag or .44 mag?

7) Did guys carry .45 ACP revolvers, instead of .45 Colt? The .45 Colt silvertip was 225 gr at 920 fps for 423 ft/lbs. The .45 ACP silvertip is 185 gr at 1000 fps for 411 ft/lbs.

When I started in '96, there were still old timers who carried the .44 magnum with dept supplied ammo. They were evenly split between 4 and 6 inch guns. The dept stopped supplying .41 mag ammo a couple of years before, likely for cost reasons.

[Dagga Boy]

1. The guns were originally purchased from a local dealer on a large group order. I got mine used and it had been to Europe at some point as it has a bunch of W. German proof marks.

2. SWAT all carried 4” guns...because the guy who’s girlfriend made their assault vests sewed a 4” holster on it...high speed stuff in the 80’s. Most male patrol cops carried 6” guns. I carried a 4” because Rogers/Safariland only made the SSIII/070 Holster for a 4” and I was a big fan of that holster and used one a majority of my career. I also had 5” Model of 1989 that I carried working special details in a Sparks crossdraw and shot competition with it.

3. In patrol, I only remember one male and one female carrying the issue Model 15 .38, everyone else carried the .45 Colt.

4. Yes, both training ammo (horribly dirty lead reloads) and we issued both Silvertip and a Federal load for duty. We also qualified monthly.

5. Very busy metropolitan police department in SoCal. Around 250 officers.

6. Chief of Police was like John Wayne. He also owned a gun shop and a serious Colt SAA collector. He loved the round and knew it was a great round for urban cop work. It was. Fairly easy to shoot big bore with great performance and minus the magnum gun issues for general issue and use.

7. We transitioned to being allowed to carry Sig P-220’s. We still had cops carrying the .45 Colt till at least the early 2000’s. We also began issuing new cops the Sigs and later HK or Glocks in the early 90’s. No .45 ACP revolvers. The Silvertip was killer in the Long Colt and sucked in .45 ACP for anything other than shooting skinny dudes in wife beaters.

The SoCal agency’s that issued or allowed the .45 Colt (big users were Ontario, Long Beach and National City) were all busy places and the guns performed great.

[03RN]

Knowledge bomb (insert the explosion sound effect of me flying the food into my son's mouth)

[john c]

DB, thank you for your reply. I have a couple other questions:

-When did your dept get into .45 Colt revolvers? Was this a '70s-'80s thing, or earlier?

-Did anyone carry Colt New Service revolvers?

-How did the Model 25-5 hold up to long term use? I've seen N frames have cylinder notch issues, due to the momentum of the cylinder.

-Related to the above, did the .45 Colt N frames hold up better than the magnum N frames?

Thank you.

[Dagga Boy]

DB, thank you for your reply. I have a couple other questions:

-When did your dept get into .45 Colt revolvers? Was this a '70s-'80s thing, or earlier?

-Did anyone carry Colt New Service revolvers?

-How did the Model 25-5 hold up to long term use? I've seen N frames have cylinder notch issues, due to the momentum of the cylinder.

-Related to the above, did the .45 Colt N frames hold up better than the magnum N frames?

Thank you.

Mid 80’s is when they started.

They were authorized, but I never saw a single Colt. I think the Mounted Posse (parade stuff) had SAA’s, but they didn’t have LE authority.

We had great luck with them. Never saw the accuracy issues many complained of and it is actually a very mild round compared to any of the Magnums. Never saw any of the issues you saw with even .357 Mag and certainly not the 41’s and 44’s. I have shot both 41’s and .44’s out of time when I was a cop with personal off duty carry guns and never had an issue with a .45 Colt.

[CWM11B]

Good stuff. I have wanted a 4" 25 since forever. Like hen's teeth in my AO, and when one is found the prices are crazy

[entropy]

Being a history and gear junkie both, I find these discussions pretty interesting. Growing up in the late 60s and 70s in the Chicago area, big bore duty revolvers were pretty common sight there too. Blue collar neighborhood with lots of cops and firemen. Neighbor across the street was a suburban cop and recall he carried a .44 revolver. I remember seeing that thing on his hip as a kid and being in awe. There are more than a few chronicled stories of CPD guys carrying the .45LC and taking care of “bidness” during that era as well. Somewhere in that period, I recall a big story in the Chicago Daily News (that dates me in itself!) when the ISP started using the S&W autos. If I recall, it was a “why do cops need so much firepower?” kind of story. Some things nevr change....

[TheNewbie]

So the .45 Colt S&W was a more rare gun to find?



How hard would it be for Ruger to drop some weight by using the GP100 vs the Redhawk for a 6 shot .45 colt revolver?

[revchuck38]

How hard would it be for Ruger to drop some weight by using the GP100 vs the Redhawk for a 6 shot .45 colt revolver?

There's not much metal left when an N frame's cylinder is bored to .45 caliber. I'm not sure of this, but I think the GP-100's cylinder is smaller than the N frame's. Isn't the .44 Special GP-100 a five-shot?

Even if they did make such a beast, they'd probably sell a couple dozen here...and nowhere else.

[paherne]

Big bore revolvers in LE are not just a 1980-early 90's thing. SFPD issued the model 58 in the early-mid 1960's, but instead of issuing a 210 grain LSWC at about 950 fps, they issued a JSP magnum round with no flash suppressant. In talking with one retired guy, he mentioned shooting at a suspect who was on top of a roof, shooting down at officers during an ambush in the mid-60's. He couldn't see squat after his first round went off.

Also, Darryl and perhaps Erick need to do a thread or podcast on how the change from revolvers to semi-autos occurred in LE. I lived through it. Now, it seems clear as day that autos are better for uniformed patrol than revolvers, but it was not such a sure thing in the late 80's early 90's. Factors like ammunition quality were HUGE. Ammunition design was another factor. 158 grain LSWCHP+P worked great when there were no barriers involved and put lots of badguys in boxes. Early 9mm loads, not so much. When you had a choice of BHP + 1911, which most administrators were rightly afraid of, SIG 220 series with horrible trigger and ergonomics, Smith 459s which turned into warmed over junk in the 3rd Gen series, B92s that ran well but were too large for those with small hands, Ruger P85s that ran and could serve as an impromptu boat anchor, K-frames and Security-Sixes made alot of sense. A Model 25 would be a good way to increase performance without changing the manual of arms...

I have one question about the Model 25s and duty ammo because I have no practical experience with them: how was extraction with the small rim on 45 Colt cases?