Springs

[BWT]

@Tom_Jones

I know you have a very technical background and you're typically very thorough. You tend to talk about topics you're familiar with and you usually are very insightful.

You mentioned in a post somewhere back about don't get you started about springs. Welcoming you into Forum Moderation retirement - I wanted to ask about this.

What're your thoughts on springs?

Let me walk you through my experience:

- I used to believe if you compressed a spring too far it wore from being that compressed.
- I was then told by various people I respected and some including well regarded mechanical engineers springs only wore/shrunk from use (like I know one who consulted on designs of AAC suppressors and he maintained this as if it was gospel) and not compression.
- I then observed 8-round magazines in 1911's that wouldn't lock the slide back after remaining loaded for like 4-5 months. I set that one aside unloaded to relegate it to non-use. I left it empty (spring uncompressed) in a range bag and went to show it to someone and how un reliable it was and why I left 1911's behind and how finicky the magazines were. And it worked ...every time I tested it - I reloaded the magazine maybe 3 times, ejected, and cycled on an empty magazine - slide locked like a champ. I then observed Larry Vickers talking about Glock 19 Gen 4's years ago (before the spring recall) needed to be left slide locked back for about a week or two and then they had no issues with the new RSA (I don't have a source - please God calm down. I'm not questioning his credentials - everybody calm down).
- I am now of the opinion that - springs of certain metals, diameter, and shape (round versus flatwire springs) (ETA: ) wear differently / all objects have some shape retention (meaning how much they can be stretched or compressed before they are permanently altered) before you can throw the wear/ number of compressions out the window / no one knows it all (myself included) / try it and find out.

I also found 1911 magazines specifically when I switched to Tripp magazines worked better - later on in a 1911 documentary someone said that the Chip McCormick 8 rounders were that size to be competition compliant. I looked and all of the most 8 round reliable magazines for 1911's have longer bodies. So, I believe that over compression plays a factor.

Is this a ball of wax you can shine some light in on?

This has always perplexed me - is there any... consistency to this or rules of thumb about this?

What're your thoughts on this?

What are other people's thoughts about this? This seems to be some wizardy in the industry...

[LittleLebowski]

I will text Tom some nudes, but that may not be enough to get him out of retirement.

[blues]

I will text Tom some nudes, but that may not be enough to get him out of retirement.

Hope springs eternal.

[MistWolf]

Hope springs eternal.

Once again- blues lies in wait, coiled to strike!

[BWT]

No need to be crushed or bent out of shape if he can’t answer.

He’s decompressing in retirement...

Hope he can bounce back into the activities he enjoys.

[UNM1136]

@Tom_Jones

Welcoming you into Forum Moderation retirement

Wha??. What I miss?

pat

[BWT]

Wha??. What I miss?

pat

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....962#post893962

I saw LL’s new tag and Tom_Jones new one - I missed it too, but found it in Tom’s started threads.

I was getting ready to ask what was up until I found the thread.

[fatdog]

Not Tom, and my engineering degree was 40+ years ago, but two things I know about various steel alloy springs and reducing their effectiveness.

The first is what you cited, working them degrades the matrix structures in the metal over time, and they loose their elasticity and power, in my observation most will also shrink.

Second, any spring will suffer a degradation in elasticity if pushed beyond its elastic limit (stretch one out too much, or compress one too much).

I have observed the same on 8 round flush base 1911 magazines and my belief is that some of those springs get compressed beyond their elastic limit with 8 rounds.

Thing is this compression/elasticity thing is not linear, it is a curve, specific to that spring and that alloy, etc. etc. so there is not some uniform microscopic measurement point at which you pass the elastic limit and suddenly everything goes to hell.

[BWT]

Not Tom, and my engineering degree was 40+ years ago, but two things I know about various steel alloy springs and reducing their effectiveness.

The first is what you cited, working them degrades the matrix structures in the metal over time, and they loose their elasticity and power, in my observation most will also shrink.

Second, any spring will suffer a degradation in elasticity if pushed beyond its elastic limit (stretch one out too much, or compress one too much).

I have observed the same on 8 round flush base 1911 magazines and my belief is that some of those springs get compressed beyond their elastic limit with 8 rounds.

Thing is this compression/elasticity thing is not linear, it is a curve, specific to that spring and that alloy, etc. etc. so there is not some uniform microscopic measurement point at which you pass the elastic limit and suddenly everything goes to hell.

Thank you for your insight.

Follow-up question - do you have insights on that spring that began working again?

Maybe it was still in it’s elasticity range?

It was also an example of one, but it still locks back on empty to this day.

In regards to your degree - sure we’ve learned a lot and education has progressed in that time.

But, education advanced because of the experiences in the field. I view experience as usually best.

[fatdog]

Thank you for your insight.

Follow-up question - do you have insights on that spring that began working again?

Maybe it was still in it’s elasticity range?

I don't think so, a breakdown in elasticity would be permanent for any ferrous alloy spring unless it was re-annealed, and I am not sure that could ever fix it. It must have stopped for some other reason.