Red dot update - June 2019

[Lon]

What's sad is the fact, like SoCal mentioned, that many agencies train to this standard.

Regarding your state's particular course, at 4feet stepping back does nothing to get the officer off the threat axis, I would prefer diagonally to the rear.

I've never been a fan of including failure drills in a qualification course because like most every trainer who has ever testified as an expert witness I've been asked the 'why don't you train officers to shoot them in the shoulder or leg' question. I'm sure answers vary as to this, but they probably include some explanation of the body's response to stress with that being the reason officers are trained to shoot center of available mass rather than specific body areas. Failure drills targeting specific reduced areas during qualification seem to defeat that line of testimony.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I say train the heck out of failure drills, just don't have them on quals.

Full disclosure - the failure drill gives the option of doing 2 to the body 1 to a designated hip Instead of 1 to the head. We always use the head. I get your point though.

[SoCalDep]

My take on the failure drill is this...

Lethal force is just that. Things are bad and the threat needs to be stopped. People may die. The big question is “who”.

Why shoot the body instead of the leg? If I could “hurt” the person and stop them, I’d use all the hurty hurt stuff I have. (Tasers, pepper spray, batons, etc.). I’ve decided this is more than hurty hurt and more stoppy stop. So pain isn’t the answer, and we’re ignoring the whole femoral thing.

So now I have to go ballistic Mav and force a cessation of bad activity. If I miss with a hurty hurt tool it’s a big “oops” and we all move on. If I miss a stoppy stop and it puts a hole in the kid down the street... That is not at all and in any way OK.

I will not, can not, should not, and never will put the life of a suspect presenting a lethal threat over the safety of the community. Anyone who suggests I should shoot for a low percentage target (leg) because maybe the pain that didn’t work with any lower level of force or that’s inappropriate for the level of threat presented “might” cause them to stop when it puts the community in danger is stupid, ignorant, or evil. None of those are good things, and I don’t listen to stupid, ignorant, or evil people.

The ONLY reason for a low percentage shot (lethal force) is that the threat of the bad actor (suspect) is so great that the need to stop the threat combined with the lack of target presented make such a shot necessary. The low percentage shot carries with it the need to be acutely aware of the backstop and backdrop. Those decisions simply shouldn’t be made when trying to “hurt” a suspect.

We don’t shoot at legs because we care about innocent people. We shoot the head because we care about innocent people.

[GJM]

I need to figure out how to do it, but should split the posts about quals and related topics into a separate thread, so we keep this one focused on red dot developments. I am not sure if my mod authority will allow me to do something that moves out of the red dot sub forum , so will check. Assuming this should go into the LE sub forum.

[MGW]

Any news on the updates to the DPP?

[GJM]

Any news on the updates to the DPP?

Updates are solid and it seems a reliable optic.

[HeavyDuty]

What’s the over / under on Trijicon and others developing rugged compact sights, especially now that Glock is going to be offering slimline MOS pistols? We’re starting to get a good base of optics ready skinny carry guns (SIG, S-A and now Glock) so I’m thinking that’s a market they will want to exploit with a compact RMR or similar. I can’t imagine Shield will have a monopoly for too long.

[MGW]

Updates are solid and it seems a reliable optic.

I see that DPP's are on sale at Dawson for $399. Seems like a bargain to me. If it bites the dust I would think Leupold would fix or replace it with the updated model.

[MGW]

Too slow. During my 40 minute commute to work, they went out of stock.

[Lon]

@SoCalDep I’m stealing the hurty hurt and stoppy stop lines.

Why shoot the body instead of the leg? If I could “hurt” the person and stop them, I’d use all the hurty hurt stuff I have. (Tasers, pepper spray, batons, etc.). I’ve decided this is more than hurty hurt and more stoppy stop.

[Eyesquared]

If you want a fun read, here is a guy out to dominate Carry Optics, shooting his Glock 26. He is making some progress at it.

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...doesnt-matter/

It's a small world. Showed up to my match earlier today and it dawned on me that this guy was on my squad. He shot lights out with the G26.