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Thread: Red dot update - June 2019

  1. #21
    I know we are talking pistols here. Only shot a red dot once on a pistol and it showed me how jittery I was when aiming. I have a couple of Vortex red dots on two different rifles/carbines. Personal preference here, but I look for a dot that has a red/green combo as well as a couple of dot sizes. I do this because I am new to the dot sight concept and like options.

  2. #22
    WHITE CLAW AFFICIONADO LittleLebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    I've been saying it for years, but RDS are just not ready for prime time duty use yet.

    Lots of high speed, low drag, low coefficient of friction units (DoD special operations and LE SWAT) are literally forcing the adoption of RDS because they are addicted to the flat range accuracy they get from an RDS, but it's a fad not unlike those same units all adopting 1911 pistols in the late 90's-early 2000's with all the drawbacks of those as mass issue duty weapons. When you think about the intended use of a duty pistol for these units as a backup/insurance policy, it makes no sense to add a significant mode of failure to it.

    I think as a concealed carry or plain clothes option for shooters (especially enthusiasts who will keep up with battery changes and checking zero on occasion) with aging eye sight, an RMR is viable and low enough risk of failure if you have separate training and carry guns that you can get away with it. For a mass issue, "let's give this to 36 SWAT operators and only issue them one pistol/optic," it's a bad idea waiting for a disastrous consequence. For reference, I was one of the "enthusiasts" trying to get my team of non-enthusiast operators to change their recoil spring and firing pin spring once a year on their 1911's, and doing that was like pulling teeth.
    Damn, what a solid post.

  3. #23
    Vending Machine Operator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    I've been saying it for years, but RDS are just not ready for prime time duty use yet.

    Lots of high speed, low drag, low coefficient of friction units (DoD special operations and LE SWAT) are literally forcing the adoption of RDS because they are addicted to the flat range accuracy they get from an RDS, but it's a fad not unlike those same units all adopting 1911 pistols in the late 90's-early 2000's with all the drawbacks of those as mass issue duty weapons. When you think about the intended use of a duty pistol for these units as a backup/insurance policy, it makes no sense to add a significant mode of failure to it.

    I think as a concealed carry or plain clothes option for shooters (especially enthusiasts who will keep up with battery changes and checking zero on occasion) with aging eye sight, an RMR is viable and low enough risk of failure if you have separate training and carry guns that you can get away with it. For a mass issue, "let's give this to 36 SWAT operators and only issue them one pistol/optic," it's a bad idea waiting for a disastrous consequence. For reference, I was one of the "enthusiasts" trying to get my team of non-enthusiast operators to change their recoil spring and firing pin spring once a year on their 1911's, and doing that was like pulling teeth.
    For the last few months I was really gung-ho on finally getting an RDS setup, thinking of G45 MOS. That changed when I started actually exploring the options. Like you said, there seems to be a major drawback of just about every one on the market, and even the very best ones the best you can get for battery life or reliability is "It'll probably work."

    So I took a second to re-evaluate how and why I use handguns, and I ended up deciding that if I ever do an RDO, it'll just be for a range/gaming gun, not serious use. I have enough years on various iron sight setups that I am instantly comfortable with my currently preferred Ameriglo CAPs, and you have to have fairly back luck to have a good set of loctited irons fail you. The "why add a mode of failure" logic in your post was exactly what talked me out of it.
    Assistant District Attorney (the jerk that makes you change your affidavit)| Admitted Beretta Fanboy

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    I've been saying it for years, but RDS are just not ready for prime time duty use yet.

    Lots of high speed, low drag, low coefficient of friction units (DoD special operations and LE SWAT) are literally forcing the adoption of RDS because they are addicted to the flat range accuracy they get from an RDS, but it's a fad not unlike those same units all adopting 1911 pistols in the late 90's-early 2000's with all the drawbacks of those as mass issue duty weapons. When you think about the intended use of a duty pistol for these units as a backup/insurance policy, it makes no sense to add a significant mode of failure to it.

    I think as a concealed carry or plain clothes option for shooters (especially enthusiasts who will keep up with battery changes and checking zero on occasion) with aging eye sight, an RMR is viable and low enough risk of failure if you have separate training and carry guns that you can get away with it. For a mass issue, "let's give this to 36 SWAT operators and only issue them one pistol/optic," it's a bad idea waiting for a disastrous consequence. For reference, I was one of the "enthusiasts" trying to get my team of non-enthusiast operators to change their recoil spring and firing pin spring once a year on their 1911's, and doing that was like pulling teeth.
    As much as I hate to admit it, as a patrol cop, yes...And also yes. That said I am trying to get my agency to approve my Glock 17.4 MOS with an RMR. My aging eyes shift every year...how long before an RDS is a "reasonable accommodation" for aging cops?

    pat

  5. #25
    Site Supporter
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    Sep 2016
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    Northern Illinois
    I started down the RDS path for two reasons - my eyes. This getting old crap ainít for sissies.

    Iím putting my toe in the water with a 19.5 MOS and a RMR, if it works out Iíll have my carry 26.5 direct milled for an RMR, too. I donít see myself putting a RDS on more than these two at this point. I do have high hopes the ACRO will shake out, that was my initial choice for the 19.
    Ken

  6. #26
    Site Supporter Trukinjp13's Avatar
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    Apr 2013
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    Michigan


    Guess you can call me lucky. My junk still works. Thousands of rounds through it and has been all over this country in multiple environments. Was done by Atei in December of 2017. Will keep carrying happily along until otherwise.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #27
    Site Supporter David S.'s Avatar
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    As it stands in June 2019,

    The RMR is the Glock 19 of pistol mounted optics.

    Prove me wrong.


  8. #28
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    Savannah, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by David S. View Post
    As it stands in June 2019,

    The RMR is the Glock 19 of pistol mounted optics.

    Prove me wrong.

    I've personally seen multiple RMR's go down. Type 2's and RM06's. Dot's fade or disappear altogether. They almost without fail lose zero internally after a drop. Usually zero returns after a few shots fired down range. I guess if the first couple rounds after a drop don't matter to you it's good to go.
    Formerly givo08.

  9. #29
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    Henderson, NV
    My eyes are no longer what they were when I was younger. I even need different glasses when I run a mill, read a magazine or TIG weld. I feel confident that with iron sights I am proficient with my pistol at 7 yards for C zone hits. Not so much using the sights for a perfect sight picture, but for helping to align the pistol with a NPOA.

    So, for me, a MRD is my current and future choice. Currently I have Vortex Venoms on several pistols. Maybe not the best choice for rock testing, but with tens of thousands of rounds, I have never experienced a problem. This is to the point that I feel confident to carry with a Venom.

    As another benefit, training with a MRD has made me a better shooter. My presentation to NPOA is better because the dot has to be there, you don't align two different points to get on target.
    With liberty and justice for all...must be 18, void where prohibited, some restrictions may apply, not available in all states.

  10. #30
    WHITE CLAW AFFICIONADO LittleLebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    I've personally seen multiple RMR's go down. Type 2's and RM06's. Dot's fade or disappear altogether. They almost without fail lose zero internally after a drop. Usually zero returns after a few shots fired down range. I guess if the first couple rounds after a drop don't matter to you it's good to go.
    I've seen the same with my RMR, the dot disappears and I have to whack it to bring it back. I've bent the battery contacts, got the appropriate plate installed, good batteries, etc.

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