Red dot update - June 2019

[YVK]

I am curious what's your (VC guys) shooting schedule like, I mean in terms of frequency and density of repetitive stress. My optic was mounted in mid September and had several thousand rounds through, including several days of 600 to 900 rounds training. The day it failed was about 600 rounds day, and person who ran it repeatedly used the optic to rack the slide. I had read the thread here and mounted exactly how it was described there.

[GJM]

Here is my thinking as of mid June 2019.

For carry and hard core defensive use today, the RMR type 2 is the only high probability choice, unless an Aimpoint Micro works for your situation.

The RMS Shield is unproven, and leaving aside the current model is not waterproof and I know nothing about the new waterproof model, I am not aware of enough of them enduring high round counts to view them as viable.

The SRO clearly has teething problems, between the adjustments moving, and emitter problems experienced with multiple units even in our small sample. Hopefully it gets sorted out, but as of today, the SRO is at best, a “buy from Amazon” proposition, so you can return it for a no hassle credit, like my friend and I are doing.

The unmodified DP Pro is a real crap shoot. Some people report crazy high round counts, but my wife and I have broken 31 of them, making them hard to depend on. The three prototype ruggedized ones we have are working well, so with Leupold set to standardize those changes soon, the Pro may still be the gaming optic of choice.

The C-More RTS2 may be a niche gaming choice, but it doesn’t have universal mounting support, has less than ideal CS support for broken units, and I think is best on a frame mounted pistol.

The Vortex units seem to be hit and miss. I don’t know enough about the Burris and other lower end units to form an opinion.

The Acro is clearly an unknown. Aimpoint promised Aimpoint battery performance and reliability, and we know half that claim is wrong, so it remains to be seen on reliability, and whether it is overall viable. In any event it is harder to conceal, with a display to small for competition, making it a niche rather than universal solution.

A few months ago, I was convinced that 2019 was the year we finally got great new red dot choices that brought the PMO mainstream. Today, I think Aimpoint and Trijicon have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with the SRO and Acro introductions, and realistically only after months of high round count use by multiple users, will we have an idea whether there is anything better than the RMR for defensive use and the DP Pro for competition.

I figured it was time for a red dot update, after an active summer of shooting. Almost every one of my shooting friends is either shooting a red dot dot in competition, for carry, or is in the process of running a red dot.

For carry, the RMR 2 is still the safest choice for most users. I don’t like the display, and the listed display dimensions are misleading, as the emitter housing protrudes into the display, making the usable display considerably smaller. However the auto dot intensity feature is category leading, the controls (on/off, change modes and intensity) work well, the battery lasts a long time, the footprint is common and it integrates with BUIS, although BUIS make a small display even smaller. I do wish it had a “doctor” mode that leaves it in auto without my override, as my friend YVK keeps leaving his on the high manual setting instead of auto and running his battery out.

The Acro seems to be reliable, it is harder to conceal, the display is small for competition, and the battery needs to last longer. Hopefully Aimpoint introduces one at SHOT with a 2032 battery or equivalent. The Acro or a T1 is still the choice for rolling in the snow or being out in the rain. The rear lens does not accumulate debris like the “ash tray” rear lens on most open emitters, although I regularly put my thumb’s finger print on the rear lens when holstering.

For smaller pistols, the Romeo Zero is still very new, although my friend, Talionis, is quite pleased with it so far on his 365 XL. The talk is the Zero is made by Shield, which would not be a surprise as it shares the same footprint. I have a Glock 43X being milled by Primary Machine for a RMSC right now.

For competition use, I believe the Sig Romeo 3 Max and Trijicon SRO are top of the pack.

First some thoughts on the others. The DP Pro, as shipped new or repaired, is back to historical levels of reliability, and soon will be even more reliable as Leupold continues to improve the product. However, by current standards the display is small and the lens distorts with multiple dots present in low forward sun angles. I continue to see Vortex red dots as budget options — and at the recent USPSA area match a squad-mate had his battery cap fly off downrange during a stage. The Holosun is for someone on a budget with an RMR footprint, but the display is still small for competition.

The Trijicon SRO and Sig Romeo 3 Max are very attractive for competition. The Romeo 3 Max uses the same footprint as a C-More RTS2 and is apparently made in the same factory in Japan as the RTS2. MOS adapters are available for the Glock, Springer adapter plates are available for the 320 X5/Legion, and it can be direct milled. It has little frame to block down range view, the display is large and clear, the controls are straightforward, it has lots of adjustment in the usable dot intensity range, the dot is bright, it is available in 6 moa, and its best feature is, it only has one dot in a low forward sun angle. The negatives are it is not built tough enough to beat on things, it doesn’t integrate well with BUIS as the emitter housing is tall, the battery doesn’t last as long as the SRO (although it has a side drawer to allow battery changes), and the up and down buttons move too easily, meaning you shouldn’t use the housing when manipulating the slide as you may adjust the optic intensity or even turn it off. The 3 Max has no auto mode but it does have MOTAC to sleep the optic if you leave it on.

The SRO fits a RMR footprint, although it’s “snorkel” may protrude forward in some installations, either collecting blast in the lens or even brass, causing a stoppage in rare instances. The lens is large, the controls work well, the battery lasts a long time, and the SRO has proven durable by red dot standards. It is available in 5 moa plus two smaller sizes. Opposite of the 3 Max, the buttons are almost too stiff, the auto intensity does not work well in certain light conditions, and in a low forward sun, you can get two dots. Two dots is better than the six with a RMR or DP Pro, but not as good as the one with the 3 Max.

Right now, I see the SRO and Max 3 as the two best choices for competition, although hopefully SHOT will bring more options for competition and carry.

[flyrodr]

I figured it was time for a red dot update, after an active summer of shooting.

@GJM - - - Thanks for a very informative status/update! Very much appreciated!!

[YVK]

Since @GJM has been endowed with moderator powers, maybe he can make that post a sticky: other than Talionis's SIG optic dying within next 1-2 thousand rounds, the state of affairs is unlikely to change in next 5 years.

[Simong]

Little over 2 month now since I got my G19 back from Johnny Glocks with the 507C mounted on top.
I would estimate about 2K of factory ammo from 115 to 147-GR.
Zero problems with the RDS, excellent accuracy and the trigger is excellent as well.

Simong.

[GJM]

Here is a link to an Enos thread, with pictures, on the “two dots” with an SRO in a low sun angle:

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...th-2-red-dots/

[Dismas316]

Here is a link to an Enos thread, with pictures, on the “two dots” with an SRO in a low sun angle:

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...th-2-red-dots/

Have you heard of the Romeo 3 having the two dot issue that the SRO has? I haven’t heard of an issue but I also don’t see nearly as many shooters using that as I do the SRO.

[GJM]

Have you heard of the Romeo 3 having the two dot issue that the SRO has? I haven’t heard of an issue but I also don’t see nearly as many shooters using that as I do the SRO.

It does not, see post 202 above.

[Dismas316]

It does not, see post 202 above.

Ah yes missed that line, thanks.

[Talionis]

Since @GJM has been endowed with moderator powers, maybe he can make that post a sticky: other than Talionis's SIG optic dying within next 1-2 thousand rounds, the state of affairs is unlikely to change in next 5 years.

It will definitely get me kilt innastreets when it dies, too.