Red dot update - June 2019

[Trukinjp13]

Spent some time out with the type 2 today. 400 more rounds shot. Dot still works as advertised. I did try something I have never tried. While it has taken hits before and there was never a issue. After reading a comment about losing zero after a big hit it peaked my interest. I tried to drop it on a hard object a few times and instantly shot. It never faltered. I felt like a moron to be honest but I wanted to make sure I was not blowing smoke from defending mine.

It really does make shooting anywhere past 10 yards fun. The biggest advantage to me is shooting on the move or from cover. I shot right and left handed from a few positions as well. Shade or direct sunlight. It makes it damn easy to make good hits. I am never one that has done well past 15 yards. With the dot I can make consistent and accurate groups. At one point I could not miss at 35 yards on steel. Something with irons I would have great difficulty to make consistently.

I agree that someone who is truly great with irons will not see as big of a difference. But I still believe that even they will be faster and more accurate when you leave the flat range and shoot more dynamically.




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[BigT]

Some of my own observations on the dots themselves and what they do.

I've had one shield become unworkable due to cleaning it wrong and turning the lens frosted.

The other one is working fine so far after a thousand odd rounds but like other auto adjustable dots becomes unusable in conjunction with a wml.

I've had two DPP's go down. Both with the motion sensor failing. I still really like the DPP for its visibility and its biggest issue for me on a carry gun is the sail of a front BUIS making most holsters a challenge.

I've popped a lens on a Docter optics model C and seen a few others pop. I've also broken a battery connection off on a Docter IPSC, though the others I'm seeing are working alright so far.

Everyone I know with any manner of Vortex has had them fail with any sort of real use.

So far my Holosun 507C is running well at 4500 rounds. The ones I've heard of failing seem to die quickly, but it does seem rare. A buddy is running a green dot one and that is very interesting to me for the same reason I use green fibres in iron sights.

Still early days with my ACRO as its on my match gun not the beater. The enclosed emitter does seem to help protect it from washout when the sun is just in the wrong place. The small lens may get it moved from that gun though. Battery life is a problem. I had a battery fail after only two months. With it living switched off in the safe most of the time.

I've found the dot to be an advantage at all distances. Once of course I had put the work in to learn it. Its not slower at close range but does offer better accuracy at speed. Its faster and more accurate at distance and more forgiving on tight shots. And the greater Situational Awareness of not taking focus back to the front of my gun is appealing.

Reliability isn't 100% yet, but then again I've seen enough broken iron sights to know they're not perfect either. I think it was Chuck Pressburg who said that currently with dots we are still in a place that we role the dice and take the gamble that the dot doesn't fail in the middle of your gunfight. Its a gamble I am willing to take even with them not being perfect.

[LittleLebowski]

Some of my own observations on the dots themselves and what they do.

I've had one shield become unworkable due to cleaning it wrong and turning the lens frosted.

The other one is working fine so far after a thousand odd rounds but like other auto adjustable dots becomes unusable in conjunction with a wml.

I've had two DPP's go down. Both with the motion sensor failing. I still really like the DPP for its visibility and its biggest issue for me on a carry gun is the sail of a front BUIS making most holsters a challenge.

I've popped a lens on a Docter optics model C and seen a few others pop. I've also broken a battery connection off on a Docter IPSC, though the others I'm seeing are working alright so far.

Everyone I know with any manner of Vortex has had them fail with any sort of real use.

So far my Holosun 507C is running well at 4500 rounds. The ones I've heard of failing seem to die quickly, but it does seem rare. A buddy is running a green dot one and that is very interesting to me for the same reason I use green fibres in iron sights.

Still early days with my ACRO as its on my match gun not the beater. The enclosed emitter does seem to help protect it from washout when the sun is just in the wrong place. The small lens may get it moved from that gun though. Battery life is a problem. I had a battery fail after only two months. With it living switched off in the safe most of the time.

I've found the dot to be an advantage at all distances. Once of course I had put the work in to learn it. Its not slower at close range but does offer better accuracy at speed. Its faster and more accurate at distance and more forgiving on tight shots. And the greater Situational Awareness of not taking focus back to the front of my gun is appealing.

Reliability isn't 100% yet, but then again I've seen enough broken iron sights to know they're not perfect either. I think it was Chuck Pressburg who said that currently with dots we are still in a place that we role the dice and take the gamble that the dot doesn't fail in the middle of your gunfight. Its a gamble I am willing to take even with them not being perfect.

Excellent post. I've been saying for 10 years that I'll wait for the next generation of red dots. I'm continuing with that.

[Hambo]

What are you gonna do with a dumpster fire if not pop some popcorn and watch?

True, but the popcorn usually has a funky taste from all the smoke.

I've had irons fail too, but at the moment I do feel like they are probably a better bet than any of the available dots.

92F front sight FTW. You can't improve them, but they never fly off.


Thanks for all the updates and beta testing @GJM. Until you post a serious winner I'll be the guy over in the corner putting orange paint on front sights.

[GJM]

Excellent post. I've been saying for 10 years that I'll wait for the next generation of red dots. I'm continuing with that.

I had this exact discussion with Gabe over the weekend. While that makes perfect sense from a technology perspective, it doesn’t take into consideration the learning curve with a dot. I am still learning, but it takes years not months.

Minor miracle, but nobody on our squad had a dot failure over a three day match. That was one SRO and three DP Pros, two of which were the prototype ruggedized Pro units. Maybe this is the moment that dots have become reliable.

Will be checking my Acro battery as soon as I get home to see it — went on high intensity a week ago Friday.

[David S.]

Steve Anderson says that shot calling is much easier with a RDS than iron sights. Having struggled for years with the concept, it's one of major the reasons I started playing with the dot. I've found his statement to be 100% accurate for me, and it might be the number one benefit of the system inside 15 yards.

[HeavyDuty]

Some of my own observations on the dots themselves and what they do.

I've had one shield become unworkable due to cleaning it wrong and turning the lens frosted.

The other one is working fine so far after a thousand odd rounds but like other auto adjustable dots becomes unusable in conjunction with a wml.

I've had two DPP's go down. Both with the motion sensor failing. I still really like the DPP for its visibility and its biggest issue for me on a carry gun is the sail of a front BUIS making most holsters a challenge.

I've popped a lens on a Docter optics model C and seen a few others pop. I've also broken a battery connection off on a Docter IPSC, though the others I'm seeing are working alright so far.

Everyone I know with any manner of Vortex has had them fail with any sort of real use.

So far my Holosun 507C is running well at 4500 rounds. The ones I've heard of failing seem to die quickly, but it does seem rare. A buddy is running a green dot one and that is very interesting to me for the same reason I use green fibres in iron sights.

Still early days with my ACRO as its on my match gun not the beater. The enclosed emitter does seem to help protect it from washout when the sun is just in the wrong place. The small lens may get it moved from that gun though. Battery life is a problem. I had a battery fail after only two months. With it living switched off in the safe most of the time.

I've found the dot to be an advantage at all distances. Once of course I had put the work in to learn it. Its not slower at close range but does offer better accuracy at speed. Its faster and more accurate at distance and more forgiving on tight shots. And the greater Situational Awareness of not taking focus back to the front of my gun is appealing.

Reliability isn't 100% yet, but then again I've seen enough broken iron sights to know they're not perfect either. I think it was Chuck Pressburg who said that currently with dots we are still in a place that we role the dice and take the gamble that the dot doesn't fail in the middle of your gunfight. Its a gamble I am willing to take even with them not being perfect.

Any observations on the RMR? That seems to be the most commonly used RDS right now outside of competition.

[BigT]

Any observations on the RMR? That seems to be the most commonly used RDS right now outside of competition.

We don't have that many guys using them hard here. The dude with the green Holosun had a Dual illumination RMR fail. And I see a few at matches , but as a rule they're not super popular on match guns because of the small lens.

That said Our last two Production Optics Level 3 matches have been won by a shooter with an RMR. But that shooter is a beast.

Most of the non competition shooters I know using them aren't putting on massive rounds counts. Ive not used one personally for more than a couple shots.

[txsapper]

Based on everything coming out on all the forums, what is the general consensus? Stick with the RMR/RMR2 for duty/hard use and wait for the Acro to get the battery issues resolved (if that will ever happen), or go with the Acro and just work through the battery issues. Both seem to be durable for duty use.

Also, if the tint on the glass seems to be an issue with battery life/usage in bright light, has anyone thought about putting a small piece of light colored window tint on the glass and see if that helps?


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[BigT]

Based on everything coming out on all the forums, what is the general consensus? Stick with the RMR/RMR2 for duty/hard use and wait for the Acro to get the battery issues resolved (if that will ever happen), or go with the Acro and just work through the battery issues. Both seem to be durable for duty use.

Also, if the tint on the glass seems to be an issue with battery life/usage in bright light, has anyone thought about putting a small piece of light colored window tint on the glass and see if that helps?


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For now I would personally lean towards an Acro with a monthly battery change and a good BUIS

In fact as soon as I can convince GLOCK to sell MOS slides separately I will do exactly that.