How proficient were the man killers of old?

[OlongJohnson]

It’s around somewhere. I recall that drill being seated with the handgun(a Colt Super .38 probably-definitely some flavor of 1911) under a napkin(!) At the start signal, retrieve and engage multiple targets. I think it’s in the G&A “red book”.

I seem to recall @Mas describing in one of his books having an AD at the commencement of that or a very similar drill many years ago.

[Jim Watson]

Yes, but he laid that to the fact he was shooting left-handed due to an injured right hand and had equipped his 1911 with ambi everything. Wouldn't have happed with a Glock 19.

We tried the old gun under the napkin trick here... until something snagged and the gun spun several revolutions like the Wheel of Fortune.

[Mas]

I seem to recall @Mas describing in one of his books having an AD at the commencement of that or a very similar drill many years ago.

Yup. That was circa 1977. That variation of the Guatemalan Steak House drill required us to stage the gun under a dinner napkin as we sat at a table, and on the signal engage multiple targets replicating terrorists who had burst into the restaurant. The final element of the stage had us doing it with the gun set to our non-dominant side. Not having an ambi on that particular pistol, I improvised by lowering the hammer on a live round to Condition Two. Not yet 30, I had followed the then-conventional wisdom of de-activating the grip safety. We had to sit on our gun hand to keep from reflexing to two-hand; we called it the "thumb in your ass" stage.

On the signal when I went to thumb cock it, I had failed to take into account that the BoMar sight on my 1911 partially blocked the hammer spur, and it slipped out from under my thumb, putting a round through the table. It gave me a new appreciation for ambi safeties, and a reason to explore better ways to wipe off a right-handed safety with my left thumb. I went home that night and wrote an article on the incident titled something like "Anatomy of a Handgun Accident" which appeared later in Guns magazine.

[Dave T]

MAS,

That makes me feel old since I remember reading that article...when it was published! (smiley face goes here)

Dave

[Jeff22]

I remember shooting a stage like that an an IPSC match about 40 years ago -- may have been called "The Quick and Dirty" and was inspired by something called the "Guatemalan Table Exercise"

[revchuck38]

On the signal when I went to thumb cock it, I had failed to take into account that the BoMar sight on my 1911 partially blocked the hammer spur, and it slipped out from under my thumb, putting a round through the table. It gave me a new appreciation for ambi safeties, and a reason to explore better ways to wipe off a right-handed safety with my left thumb. I went home that night and wrote an article on the incident titled something like "Anatomy of a Handgun Accident" which appeared later in Guns magazine.

A good example of making lemonade from a lemon situation...

[Coyotesfan97]

Bob Boze Bell talks about the gun that killed Billy the Kid and recently sold for Six million dollars.

[1911Nut]

I remember shooting a stage like that an an IPSC match about 40 years ago -- may have been called "The Quick and Dirty" and was inspired by something called the "Guatemalan Table Exercise"

The first GAS (Gunsite Alumni Shoot) I participated in was held in (IIRC) 1981 at the old Black Canyon (now Ben Avery) shooting range in Phoenix, AZ. One of the courses of fire was "The Guatemalan Steakhouse" and the start position was shooter seated at a table with the pistol in Condition 1 and placed under a folded newspaper on the table.

[Snapshot]

The briefing for a "scenario" match a few years ago started out "Welcome to Nicaragua... " and went on to describe a stage where negotiations (over mining rights, I think) break down, guns are produced, and you need to retreat, engage the targets and avoid hitting the translators. Realistic? Probably not. Fun to shoot? Definitely.

[JohnO]

The first GAS (Gunsite Alumni Shoot) I participated in was held in (IIRC) 1981 at the old Black Canyon (now Ben Avery) shooting range in Phoenix, AZ. One of the courses of fire was "The Guatemalan Steakhouse" and the start position was shooter seated at a table with the pistol in Condition 1 and placed under a folded newspaper on the table.

That scenario or one very much like it is based on the experience of a former director of operations at Gunsite, Chuck Taylor (RIP), while working for a 3 letter .gov agency. Chuck while a big talker was never a I did this, I did that self promoter. He might talk about some particular situation he was involved in but tell the story as if he was recounting someone else's experience.

I lost a friend and a great instructor, Frank, to cancer (fuck cancer) just about 1 year ago now. He was very tight with Chuck going all the way back to Chuck's time at Gunsite. Frank was one of Chuck's few vetted & trained instructors. Chuck would come to CT and stay at Frank's place and run a yearly class or two. Frank would occasionally fill in the details behind some of the scenarios Chuck would set up. I would be on the range with Frank a month after Chuck had left town and Frank would say, "That guy Chuck talked about and what he did, that was actually Chuck."

What really happened in that Central American restaurant as I heard it. Chuck was seated at a table in a restaurant with a few folks. Two guys came in, guns in hand, looking to schwack Chuck. Chuck saw them before they saw him. Chuck centerpunched both of them with 230 gn hardball as a hello here I am gesture. The story also goes on to recount Chuck schwacking the 3rd guy, the getaway driver as he attempted to 'get away'. Legend has it a headshot through the rear window as the car was speeding away reunited him with his buddies now assuming room temperature.

Chuck would run this scenario in his Tactical Pistol class. Target or targets down range shooter sitting at a table gun holstered and Chuck would issue the go command.

Chuck's exploits would certainly qualify him for a place in the annals of the man killers of yore. Cancer did what many others died trying.