How proficient were the man killers of old?

[serialsolver]

I've read quite a bit of what Jeff Cooper wrote, and have several of his books. I have yet to run into anything where he mentions anything about actually using a firearm against a human opponent. Would you mind telling me, is this information on shootings Cooper was in public knowledge that is perhaps written down somewhere?

I have no real need for the information, just curious. There is a whole metric ton of claims and rumors about the man, seemingly mostly written by people who have never read a single thing the man actually wrote, so it's always nice to know how the actual facts are.

I think Mas write an article for American Handgunner in reference to Coopers use of force in ww2 and South America.


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[Dave T]

Thanks for the explanation of "Fudd" guys. As you can tell, I live a sheltered life. I only crawl out from under my rock to cruse a few gun forums and go shooting once in a while. (smile)

Dave

[TiroFijo]

I think Mas write an article for American Handgunner in reference to Coopers use of force in ww2 and South America.


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Was he ever in south america?

[1Rangemaster]

Was he ever in south america?

According to his writings, Central America. “El Presidente” coms from a demonstration exercise for a Central American presidential security detail.
I’m not near my books, but I have a vague memory of home referring to Guatemala. There were other “excursions” south of the US border- a river expedition, etc.
He comments on the assassination of a US Naval officer in El Salvador, I believe. He believed it was a “failure of mindset”, which the officer could have picked up at GUNSITE.

[okie john]

According to his writings, Central America. “El Presidente” coms from a demonstration exercise for a Central American presidential security detail.
I’m not near my books, but I have a vague memory of home referring to Guatemala. There were other “excursions” south of the US border- a river expedition, etc.
He comments on the assassination of a US Naval officer in El Salvador, I believe. He believed it was a “failure of mindset”, which the officer could have picked up at GUNSITE.

Per Cooper's Commentaries, Volume 7, Number 12 (November 1999)

At the Gunsite Reunion just past, we introduced the drill known as the "Guatemalan Steak House," which is a competitive exercise which I took from life down in Guatemala some years ago.

In classic Cooper fashion, he didn't describe the drill.


Okie John

[1Rangemaster]

Per Cooper's Commentaries, Volume 7, Number 12 (November 1999)



In classic Cooper fashion, he didn't describe the drill.


Okie John

It’s around somewhere. I recall that drill being seated with the handgun(a Colt Super .38 probably-definitely some flavor of 1911) under a napkin(!) At the start signal, retrieve and engage multiple targets. I think it’s in the G&A “red book”.
There’s also the “Dozier Drill”, multiple Pepper Poppers simulating a kidnap of US General Dozier in Italy in the 1980s(?).
Last I knew, they still use it at GUNSITE.
Any drill/eval. is a bit stressful with peers around. The late Louis Auerbach mentions the “Steakhouse”in his writings.
Most here could smoke these. It’s interesting when you watch students or casual competitors run them; can be a cluster.
Cooper also comments that the “marksmanship challenge” or problem is not difficult or complex generally speaking. Looking at YouTube, reading the “Tactical Professor”, Givens, etc., the challenges are relatively simple. The rub is recognition and willingness to respond. In “Another Country”, Cooper writes about being ready to fight in a traffic jam south of the border.

[okie john]

In “Another Country”, Cooper writes about being ready to fight in a traffic jam south of the border.

"Nocturne in The Ten Ring" if I remember correctly.


Okie John

[1Rangemaster]

"Nocturne in The Ten Ring" if I remember correctly.


Okie John

Now I gotta go look!
Back on topic for a moment: Givens(I think) for awhile, and Lee Weems have an eval.where one engages a (big) playing card. I’ll look that one up too…

[Coyotesfan97]

I’ve got some new books to read.

[BobM]

It’s around somewhere. I recall that drill being seated with the handgun(a Colt Super .38 probably-definitely some flavor of 1911) under a napkin(!) At the start signal, retrieve and engage multiple targets. I think it’s in the G&A “red book”.
There’s also the “Dozier Drill”, multiple Pepper Poppers simulating a kidnap of US General Dozier in Italy in the 1980s(?).
Last I knew, they still use it at GUNSITE.
Any drill/eval. is a bit stressful with peers around. The late Louis Auerbach mentions the “Steakhouse”in his writings.
Most here could smoke these. It’s interesting when you watch students or casual competitors run them; can be a cluster.
Cooper also comments that the “marksmanship challenge” or problem is not difficult or complex generally speaking. Looking at YouTube, reading the “Tactical Professor”, Givens, etc., the challenges are relatively simple. The rub is recognition and willingness to respond. In “Another Country”, Cooper writes about being ready to fight in a traffic jam south of the border.

I skimmed the red book earlier (the competition section) and didn’t see that course.