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Thread: How proficient were the man killers of old?

  1. #11
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    Jun 2012
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    ABQ
    "Fast is fine, accuracy is final. You need to learn to be slow in a hurry."
    -Wyatt Earp.

    Moar stuf.

    http://abesguncave.com/wyatt-earp-on...ing-interview/

    pat

  2. #12
    My comments are applicable to "marksmen" not "man killers". A long time ago when I was still a youngster I was fortunate enough to occasionally hunt with older gentlemen that grew up carrying long guns daily or weekly. Eating wild game wasn't life or death but it was necessary to save money or just be able to have more meat in the family diet.

    They were all great shoots. Generally, spending money on ammo was mostly done for the future payoff i.e. hunting and putting food on the table. So just enough practice early in life to learn not to miss and then a lot of practical application.

    I still have a few contemporary friends that hunt enough to be great shots with long guns, skill mostly acquired from frequent hunting.

  3. #13
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    Jun 2019
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    Mid-Atlantic Region

    Bill Tilghman book

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie B View Post
    A very long time ago, I read the biography of Bill Tilghman which was written by his second wife just after WW2. IIRC, she wrote that he learned to shoot with a cap and ball Colt .36, primarily by snap-shooting on vermin.

    Bill Hickock shot and killed Davis Tutt in a fast-draw duel in 1865, reportedly at 75 yards.

    Show them how to run a M&P or a Glock, let them get the feel of it and I'll bet that those guys would clean up an IDPA or USPSA match. They were used to shooting fast, accurately, coolly, and nobody would be shooting back at them in a match.
    Sir, do you have the title for the Bill Tilghman book? I've been reading as much as i can about the gunfighters of the 1865-1945 gunfighters.

  4. #14
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    Dec 2011
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    Bellingham WA
    I had a good friend, now dead, with whom I shot almost weekly for ~30 years. He had no formal training and did most everything wrong.

    He was fast and seldom missed.
    Semper Paratus,

    Steve

  5. #15
    Skilled shooters are still and always have been a small minority over time. True “Gunfighters” and hunters of men with exceptional skill is again a limited thing. I have spent my entire adult life studying the successful ones. What has changed DRASTICALLY is the legalities and expectations on the application of both force and lethal force. Equally, investigating those uses of force have exponentially gone crazy comparatively as we go back in history.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  6. #16
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    Oct 2011
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    Asuncion, Paraguay
    My vote is firmly on "old myth"...

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagga Boy View Post
    Skilled shooters are still and always have been a small minority over time. True “Gunfighters” and hunters of men with exceptional skill is again a limited thing. I have spent my entire adult life studying the successful ones. What has changed DRASTICALLY is the legalities and expectations on the application of both force and lethal force. Equally, investigating those uses of force have exponentially gone crazy comparatively as we go back in history.
    Amen. Once I may have sprained my eyeballs rolling them when I heard my canine handler had an email address "manhunter". Nope, he wasn't. I recently recommended The Chiorboys to someone to get an ide what the ROEs were like in the late 60s early 70s, before Grahm became an issue.

    pat

  8. #18
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    Oct 2011
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    Asuncion, Paraguay
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie B View Post
    A very long time ago, I read the biography of Bill Tilghman which was written by his second wife just after WW2. IIRC, she wrote that he learned to shoot with a cap and ball Colt .36, primarily by snap-shooting on vermin.

    Bill Hickock shot and killed Davis Tutt in a fast-draw duel in 1865, reportedly at 75 yards.

    Show them how to run a M&P or a Glock, let them get the feel of it and I'll bet that those guys would clean up an IDPA or USPSA match. They were used to shooting fast, accurately, coolly, and nobody would be shooting back at them in a match.
    Probably a cap-and-ball revolver of that era would group into 18"+ at 75 yds...

  9. #19
    Just for what it’s worth, one of the most intense, best executed shootings I ever witnessed was by my old bike partner countering an ambush. Absolutely horrible technical shooter. I had to remediate him every month to keep him qualified for SWAT. Generally had his off duty gun in his wife’s purse. He could not hold a candle to most here in any kind of shooting drill or qualification and certainly not in a sport shooting match. He was an exceptional hunter of humans, was the fastest person I have ever seen at picking up threats, and could obviously shoot well taking incoming when he let his sub conscience shooting skills work. Working with guys like him are why I don’t get overly impressed with folks who have mastered a very small percentage of the shooting problem and have never tested the rest of the equation or been in a position to develop the other skills that many of those old exceptional shooters of men possessed. Those who have mastered the “whole package” are very few and far between and a vast majority of the firearms world have never taken the time or made the real effort to really look into the entirety of what made these people successful....instead, one line memes seems to be the norm.
    Last edited by Dagga Boy; 06-19-2019 at 01:14 PM.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  10. #20
    The townspeople did pretty well against the James and Younger gang in Northfield, MN
    after the civil war. The gang tried to rob the bank there and the town took exception.

    One of the men was home on vacation from the University Of Michigan. He
    borrowed a Smith Carbine from a Civil War vet and started in on the gang from
    an upstairs window of a hotel. Killed one outright and wounded another.
    The carbine was on display at the Northfield museum a few years ago.

    Another Northfield citizen used a .45-70 trapdoor to kill a gang member and
    a horse.

    One of the Younger brothers had 11 wounds when captured.
    On the way out of town the gang tried to take a wagon from some duck hunters
    so they could carry their wounded more easily. The duck hunters showed them
    the business end of their duck guns and the outlaws decided wagon jacking
    was a bad idea after all.

    Interesting fight.
    Last edited by ACP230; 06-19-2019 at 01:21 PM.

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